Micah
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Fri Jul 29th 11:10 2005 / #1 |
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7,000 kids there. 400 armed police. Lawyers are sweating in anticipation... |
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Pacman
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Fri Jul 29th 11:48 2005 / #2 |
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anyone know why the police are baracading? Do they need to have some special permit? or do they just want to show off their gear that they haven't used since the WTO meetings? |
Truck
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Fri Jul 29th 11:49 2005 / #3 |
EVer since the IMF the riot cops have had to justify their existence by looking for potential terrorists. This time it's kids and their crazy music-lovin. Jail em all. Dancing should be made illegal.
It's fucked. They have permission to be on the land. On their site - they even quote the law that forbids the GOV from preventing access to private land.. |
jeff
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Fri Jul 29th 11:53 2005 / #4 |
SMS just sent to PTV from one friend who's there setting up:
"So we are in the field- cca 100 people who came early. The E50 main highway to GErmany is blocked 9 hours now. They are threatening us using force, water cannons, and 1000 riot police. People are playing music and dancing in front of them. The humanitarian organizations are sending us drinking water" |
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bacil
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Fri Jul 29th 12:29 2005 / #5 |
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http://www.novinky.cz/domaci/61806-policie-dala-ucastnikum-c zechteku-ultimatum.html |
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Micah
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Fri Jul 29th 12:52 2005 / #6 |
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Nice. So the cops won't let the kids onto the land, so the caravan of cars is blocking the highway. If the kids don't move, the police will "intervene". Don't these people have anything better to do? |
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czechfriend
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Fri Jul 29th 12:55 2005 / #7 |
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Don't the kids have anything better to do? |
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skin
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Fri Jul 29th 13:51 2005 / #8 |
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Homework. Sound like a bit of a twat there CF. |
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jeff
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Fri Jul 29th 13:53 2005 / #9 |
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What's wrong with dancing on the weekend CZ friend? Seems like a normal, healthy thing.. |
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Truck
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Fri Jul 29th 13:58 2005 / #10 |
MAp:
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skin
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Fri Jul 29th 14:00 2005 / #11 |
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I think you should give us a top five list of "better things" for teenagers to do on a summer weekend Czechfriend. |
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jeff
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Fri Jul 29th 14:01 2005 / #12 |
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Map is on that link that Bacil posted.. Think you cannot link to their images .. |
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jeff
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Fri Jul 29th 14:40 2005 / #13 |
Uhm - well - just heard that it has been cancelled - guess they were using water cannons on kids trying to go there - so rather than fight them it has been called off ..
Just to be clear: keep in mind - there are no laws being broken here - they weren't doing anything illegal - they wanted to go DANCE and BE IN THE NATURE - jeeeez - sometimes i hate humans ... |
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czechfriend
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Fri Jul 29th 14:42 2005 / #14 |
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Yeah not but i bet none of you here would want them under your windows for two days leaving the place full of trash. Then there is the issue of private property well last year they lied to the guy what they are going to do on the property and left the place full of trash. Then there is the issue of if crime is happening(such as sale of drugs) on private property they the police has to intervene. They It is really baffaling why they can't rent an unused military airport for two days and clean up. |
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skin
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Fri Jul 29th 14:50 2005 / #15 |
Five better things still czechfriend.
I also suspect you might try and break the speed limit in your car, I'm going to intervene and take it from you. |
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jeff
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Fri Jul 29th 14:53 2005 / #16 |
Agreed re just doing totally on up and up - apparently they did have some permissions - (maybe not enough?) but think the whole sercrecy thing works to their disadvantage - makes it a challenge to the cops - so of course they come to prove their control power ...
Burning man is good example to follow... Free (but costs money). This cash goes to cleanup and organizing water, toilets, etc. The authorities know about but keep out. |
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jeff
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Fri Jul 29th 15:04 2005 / #17 |
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And i will acknowledge that, just like in IMF, there are people there LOOKING for action / conflict .. just seems a sad state of affairs when people can't go to woods and celebrate the Summer... |
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czechfriend
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Fri Jul 29th 15:20 2005 / #18 |
Actually Jeff an inteview with the owner in novinky.cz says that the farmer never gave any permision and he wanted work on his field today. At the other location the owner recalled his permision because the organizers lied to him what they are going to do on his property.
Top Five Things to do for Tenneagers this weekend
1. Rent an unused military airport. (Plenty of those around the country) bring your sound system make a lot of noise trash the place. THen before leaving clean up.
2.Count back by 3s from 898212364584664966794634
3. visit ticketpro.cz and find a concert of your liking
4.Collect more evidence about the evil regime of GW Bush
5.Buy UNESCO postcards all weekend.
Top Five Things not to Do
1. Block a major Highway in the Czech Republic on a friday. This will make the most hated group of people in the country.
2. Go on somebodys property and hang out.
3. Rent a property telling the owner that you are just renting it for some friends and you are not going to play any music.
4. Invite drug dealers to your party:this will get you police attention
5. Go to tesco and ask for bear steaks. |
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czechfriend
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Fri Jul 29th 15:22 2005 / #19 |
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Jeff whats your home address me and my friends want to come to your home today and celebrate the very hot weather. |
sambeckwith
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Fri Jul 29th 15:26 2005 / #20 |
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What's wrong with bear steaks? |
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skin
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Fri Jul 29th 16:05 2005 / #21 |
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You can come round my house czechfriend, we'll collect some more evidence about Bush and have a bit of a tidy up. |
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czechfriend
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Fri Jul 29th 16:08 2005 / #22 |
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Yeah and I ll bring the bear steak with UNESCO postcards. |
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skin
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Fri Jul 29th 16:12 2005 / #23 |
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Are they really steaks of bear? Not panda surely. |
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Micah
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Fri Jul 29th 16:48 2005 / #24 |
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Koala. Honey-dipped and de-clawed. |
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Bobbo
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Fri Jul 29th 16:48 2005 / #25 |
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I don't know about bear steaks, but you can get great deals on horse meat from time to time around here - watch for the mega steeplechases and then keep your eyes open... Anyway, disco has always sucked, and techno looks equally promising, IMHO |
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skin
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Fri Jul 29th 17:02 2005 / #26 |
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They have to have a koala cull in some parts of Australia, I turned up with a machette and offered to help. They claimed it was done in a more humane way. |
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Micah
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Fri Jul 29th 17:34 2005 / #27 |
 |
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skin
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Fri Jul 29th 17:46 2005 / #28 |
How do the police here get away with wearing ski-masks?
At least he'll be sweating his tits off. |
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Pacman
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Fri Jul 29th 17:46 2005 / #29 |
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can we blame the EU for this??:) |
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Pacman
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Fri Jul 29th 19:12 2005 / #30 |
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just saw on euronews that apparently they had to cross private property in order to get to the legal site. Why police dressed up in robocop suits with large batons in order to stop a few hundred kids from crossing a field is beyond me. Another interesting perspective would be the cost of the police operation and the inconvienence of the traffic jam versus letting some kids dance, and litter. |
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skin
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Fri Jul 29th 19:36 2005 / #31 |
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Just seen them on Nova, sort of work they love, in no danger and get to push a few kids about and feel hard. |
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V
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Sun Jul 31st 10:33 2005 / #32 |
LEAGUE OF HUMAN RIGHTS PRESS RELEASE
30. 7. 2005
League of Human Rights condemns illegal police intervention against CzechTek and calls for the immediate resignation of Interior Minister Bublan
On the basis of information from news reports and participants in the event at Ml??nec pod P?™imdou in Western Bohemia, the League of Human Rights must express its condemnation of the brutal police intervention there.
The police have encroached upon rights guaranteed to all by the Charter of Fundamental Rights and Basic Freedoms (1) in a manner which is completely unacceptable for a democratic state:
1. Without any legal justification, the police restricted the freedom of
movement of persons who were peacefully in transit on the public roads.
2. The police as an agent of public authority illegally and brutally infringed
upon the private contract between the lessor of the property and the organizers of the dance party. By so doing, the police made it impossible for the purpose of the lease to be achieved and thereby caused damages to both contractual parties.
3. By erecting an illegal barrier to the lawfully leased property, the police
artificially escalated the situation. This resulted in conflict which could
otherwise have been avoided.
4. The police used completely inappropriate methods, given the situation, and during the intervention injured several dozen people.
In contrast to the organizers of the event, who leased the property in good
faith as a result of last year’s problems, thereby demonstrating their desire
to meet the legal requirements, the police decided to place themselves above the law for reasons which are neither understandable nor acceptable. Under the rule of law the police may not presume that participants of a private event are going to behave illegally.
The League of Human Rights calls upon Interior Minister Franti??ek Bublan to recognize his responsibility for the completely inappropriate and illegal
intervention committed by the police and to immediately resign.
The League further demands that all police officers responsible for this illegal intervention be held accountable and their victims compensated.
The League recommends all victims of police brutality to contact other witnesses as soon as possible, to have any injuries examined by a doctor and a medical report issued. Victims of this illegal police intervention who want to file criminal charges against the police may contact the League lawyers on +420 608 719 535 or by e-mail at brno@llp.cz.
For further information, please contact:
Mgr. Ji?™? Kopal, lawyer, League of Human Rights
Mobile phone: +420 608 719 535
League of Human Rights - Liga lidsk??ch pr??v
Bratislavsk?? 31
602 00 Brno
Tel.: +420 545 210 446
E-mail: brno@llp.cz |
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Truck
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Sun Jul 31st 11:24 2005 / #33 |
Thanks kindly for the time on this, League ..
I thought the days of storm trooper cops and tricky tricks ended in CR in 89. Short memories..
The photo is great, Micah. Lucky that cop is wearing all that protective gear and carrying a shock stick. Those dancing kids, even though weaponless, are known to be such terrific fighters. And agreed about the mask.. Why do those police cover their faces? See, i like cops. Ones that keep the thugs off the streets and bust women traffikers, and fight organized crime.
These men in masks are not guardians of the people. They should not be tolerated. If they are fighting for the good guys, why do they cover their faces? |
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skin
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Sun Jul 31st 15:13 2005 / #34 |
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The only situation for anonymity is in undercover/intelligence surely. If the police are stoping something as mundane as trespassing why do they hide their face? |
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Pacman
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Sun Jul 31st 19:10 2005 / #35 |
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amazing protest took place in front of the police headquarters in Letna, I can't estimate how many people were there, but the march went all the way from Letenske Namesti, past sparta, absolutely amazing this many people were mobilized in 24 hours. Great vibe, truly didnt expect that many people to show up |
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skin
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Mon Aug 1st 00:34 2005 / #36 |
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And it's happening again tomorrow? |
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Pacman
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Mon Aug 1st 03:27 2005 / #37 |
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yep, tomorrow, 3 pm, right across from letenske namesti, 3500 people estimated yesterday. and strangely, no cops, that was the strangest thing, the fact that they made a decision not to police this event in any way, who knows about today, but yesterday I saw a combined total of maybe 5 police officers. |
gc
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Mon Aug 1st 09:51 2005 / #38 |
There were tons of cops there Pacman.. I saw a watercannon truck, anti-riot tank, at least six mounted storm troopers cops on their storm trooper horses (they were the coolest), and three or four vans full of standard riot cops. they were just around the corner near the beer tap - waiting for orders to crush the rebellion i presume.
The turnout was pretty impressive, granted, but it was clearly not well organized (the speakers only had a few partially functioning bull horns, so only a couple hundred people could hear what was being said). No city officials showed up.. and there were no sound systems! But still neat that people were there.
Only real blemish on the thing was I saw some drunken partiers throwing tomatoes and eggs at some poor cop. it was sad, he really looked like he was going to start crying. chudak.. |
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Pacman
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Mon Aug 1st 10:10 2005 / #39 |
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what I meant by no cops, was the fact that the police chose not to make their presence known. I did see the cops hiding around the corner with their robocop uniforms, however, towards the beginning of the protest there were cops in front of the Ministry of Interior building, and as the protest grew, they decided to leave, and just have a few traffic cops on the corner, during the march there were barely any police escorts at all. I think this was a good decision, and probably prevented a lot of violence that could have broke out. We'll see what happens today. I heard from many of my czech friends that the reason there was no sound system was because if they had a sound system, the cops would have immediately stormed the demonstration, fo the most part they were really well behaved, they decided not to try and shut down and streets, and I even saw some dready guys clearing the way for trams through the center of the march. as far as the eggs go, I think they were lucky they weren't rocks. |
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Oilly
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Mon Aug 1st 10:29 2005 / #40 |
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if anyone familiar with the undergr. scene in nor calif. in the early nineties; the fullmoons and other outdoor parties cleaned up afterthemselves (even folks not directly involved'd chip in on any beligerant who though he was in mexico)and the dancers were much more environmentally educated ie: no plastic cups, picked up their cigs and left the land cleaner than when they showed up. i went to this thing (cz tek) 3 yr ago and it seriously looked like a land fill (partly because all these crusties are under 18 and live w/ their parents) i say lock 'em up if they cant figure out the environmental issue. |
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czechfriend
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Mon Aug 1st 10:49 2005 / #41 |
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Oilly that is not unusual here I saw protesters against globalization eating at Mc Donalds and smoking philp morris cigarettes. Environmentalist driving old skodas. Anarchrists are always happy to take unemployment benefits. |
skritek
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Mon Aug 1st 11:39 2005 / #42 |
The environmental aspect of the parties has always been a problem. However, this year each soundsystem had to pay a 5,000kc rental fee, which would cover the cost of clean up etc. All these corporate festivals are no better in terms of the amount of plastic cups they use and cigarette butts etc. It's one of the things that always disgusts me when I go the festivals. There must be a better way.
But the real issue here is the use of force by the police against unarmed festival goers who just wanted to have a good time. My friend, a 150cm tall girl, was beaten by the police with billy clubs for trying to ask them a question. The cops were heard to be calling out to each other about kicking some junkie ass. They covered their identity numbers and their faces. One guy, who went around writing down numbers of the police (before they covered them up) was beaten and the numbers taken from him. This was a mandate from above, kick some ass and send a message. My friends were one of the first soundsystems to set up and the stories they are telling would be unbelievable if you didn't keep hearing the same thing from others who were there.
The best thing was the reaction yesterday in Letna, except for a few drunken idiots who mauled a candy machine, the rally had a great, if unorganized vibe. Hope to see you all at the protest today.
Here is a link to the english version of the protest organizer's web-page
http://www.policejnistat.cz/?lng=en |
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Pacman
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Mon Aug 1st 11:45 2005 / #43 |
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One has to remember that this was the first time that the party was legal, and also the first time that it suffered such a strong reaction from the police. This was a premeditated crime against a lawful leaser of property. The police wanted nothing more than to show their force. That's why they rolled a tank in, I mean do you think they really inteded on unloading rounds that are generally seen on a battlefield into a group of teens who went to dance. The tank (and no I m not talking about an armoured car) was simply a show of force by the police, and had no reason to be there. The police had no intention of using it, and I doubt it was even loaded. I have a strong libertarian streak in me, and I believe that if one gets the proper permits from the state, and lawfully rents property, then they should be able to use that property for the purposes explained, One has to remember that what the police did was illegal, and many took off their badges so they were unidentifiable, and in concerns of "locking them up" well they didn't lock many of them up, instead they chose to beat the shit out of them, and find their own way home, many of my friends were denied access to their cars when they wanted to leave, I mean if the issue was that they are protecting others people private property around them, then where did they expect these people to run to after they teargas an entire field full of people. This was a political move, however the actions there were illegal, we all know that the police here are as corrupt as they come, and if someone needs to bribe an officer for a ticket, there is basically no legal recourse that they can take. The same is true for those who attended this event, there is basically no legal recourse. And that is exactly why they attacked the crowd. Now peoples only way to show the police their disagreement with their tactics is not through the court system, but instead to take it to the streets, and show these people how they feel. If they were worried about littering, then they should teargas the Tabor festival as well. czechfriend I have one question for you. Do you believe that a property owner should not have the right to lease his property for an event like this? |
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czechfriend
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Mon Aug 1st 11:52 2005 / #44 |
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Yeah if they had permision to be on the property and were not violating any other laws then the police intervention was absolutley uncalled for and some body from the police should be fired or go to jail. |
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Pacman
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Mon Aug 1st 12:01 2005 / #45 |
heres a link to the permit they had.
http://imgs.idnes.cz/oprilohy/infografika/technoparty/smlouv a1.htm |
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czechfriend
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Mon Aug 1st 12:40 2005 / #46 |
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yeah that was a permit to use the property, for a mass gathering they would need a permit from the local admi. too. By the way like in any other country. Wonder what would happen if somebody tried to organize (disorganize) something like this in the US or other countries in europe. Pretty sure police would do the same. |
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skritek
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Mon Aug 1st 12:54 2005 / #47 |
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No actually the law is very vague. You do not technically need permission from the town council as I understand it. However, it is an accepted convention that you inform the town council and pay a nice bribe. They didn't do that and..... |
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czechfriend
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Mon Aug 1st 13:02 2005 / #48 |
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Belive me I studied this you do need a permision. There is no fee involved it. If we didnt have this law then Nazi's could go through street with impunity. |
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Pacman
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Mon Aug 1st 13:08 2005 / #49 |
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I think that the permit shows that they tried to be in compliance with the law. We could get into a legal debate about the vagueness of czech laws, but that may prove futile, I think the real question is whether or not the police action was justified, and an effective way to get these people off of private property (which the owner said they could use). Is beating people senseless and not arresting them a good method that you would like to see more of? In concerns to your question about the reaction of a similar situation in the the US or the rest of europe. I would have to say that in the US the police could get very rough, I was once at a gathering of people in a park in the states, we were all hanging out there, because there was a concert going on nearby, there were only about 50 people in the park, and the police stormed it and tear gassed us. There were no laws being broken, and also no arrests. You see when you arrest someone in the states the case will go to court, and it might fall against the police, thats why they don't arrest people. However it is against the law in the states to use the military against a civilian population, therefore bringing a tank to a rave would not be legal, and I don't think it would happen. Also it is against the law for police to remove or cover up their badge numbers in order to not be identified, by simply removing their badges, the police were the ones breaking the law. And those officers that did so should face some sort of punishment, however, we all know thats not going to happen |
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czechfriend
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Mon Aug 1st 13:19 2005 / #50 |
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well if you saw the WTO protest in the US they did us what you call a tank if it is registered as a police vehicle then it is not military. That is the trick done in any country in europe. As to covering of the badge this is police trick which never pays off. I was once stoped two policeman one of which did not have his badge number. After pointed it out to him they imdiatly gave my back my documents and left and the guy who had a badge on was very unhappy with his colleague |
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jeff
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Mon Aug 1st 13:21 2005 / #51 |
It was an amazing action yesterday. 1000s coming together to say NO to this kind of unnecessary strong-arming.. Never seen anything like it here.. Hope it has some effect. So far from what i've read and heard, the spin machines are in full effect, so we'll see...
Of note: the crowd was surprisingly civil and well behaved. Loud as hell and energetic, but there was a strong effort to operate within the law .. The march was orderly - people staying off the roads, etc.. The restraint was impressive - i expected more rowdiness.. Well done. I expect even more people will go today - hopefully with this same kind of energy .. |
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debbie does
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[anonymous]
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Mon Aug 1st 13:27 2005 / #52 |
Bring it on. |
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Pacman
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Mon Aug 1st 13:40 2005 / #53 |
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Its up to the police whether or not it will get rowdy. If they increase their presence, and use the tactics they used at czechtek, expect a lot more stuff to get broken, if they act with restraint as they did yesterday, then it should go smoothly. A tank at the WTO protests in Seattle??? I think you mean an armoured car, not anything like the tank that they rolled out at czechtek, I wouldnt doubt the US rolling a tank out into the streets, just have never seen it, if you have a link to apic I d love to see it. that aside, I d like to ask you what was the purpose of bringing a tank to a rave? surely they weren't intent on using it. by the way, soaking handkerchiefs in lemon juice is a good make shift gas mask. I really don't think they'll gas the crowd, but its just a good thing to know:) |
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skritek
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Mon Aug 1st 20:34 2005 / #54 |
It seems the law is open to some interpretation.
Here is a link to one lawyers's opinion about what happened. I got about 40% of it but, admittedly, it is a bit beyond my Czech language skills. Any help would be appreciated.
http://www.blisty.cz/2005/8/1/art24342.html |
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Pacman
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Mon Aug 1st 19:27 2005 / #55 |
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wow, what a great sucess. I can't imagine how many people came, but I d estimate at least 5000. Plus I got to see Vaclav Havel who paid the protestors a special visit. Havel is so cool. Thats all I can say. |
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skin
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Tue Aug 2nd 04:05 2005 / #56 |
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Good work to all. have to let it be known what's wrong is wrong. |
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jeff
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Tue Aug 2nd 08:28 2005 / #57 |
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Yesterday's protest called at least twice as many people. There are plans for more actions, but not sure what the exact demands are at this point and whether continued protests will help achieve them.. |
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Oilly
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Tue Aug 2nd 10:46 2005 / #58 |
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about the question of whether it's 'legal' or not, I don't think it makes a difference. Cops everywhere can modify or impose their own rules whenever they want. |
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Pacman
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Tue Aug 2nd 11:19 2005 / #59 |
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wednesday at 5, and then saturday are the next two planned events. They want to keep going until Bublan resigns. Looks like he's pretty screwed, when you have both Havel and Klaus condemning his actions. And the police have been absolutely quiet, looks like they know they screwed up. Paroubek may also be in trouble, Klaus has used the situation for politics, and the latest poll shows around 70 percent want to see him(Paroubek) to resign, but then again, it dosn't seem like czechs ever like their prime minister. |
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get real
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Tue Aug 2nd 13:16 2005 / #60 |
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it's obviously august in the czech republic. nowhere else would bored, dazed teens be elevated to the level of civil rights heroes for standing up for their right to party in the woods. how inspirational! just like the orange revolution in ukraine. as i stepped over broken glass and garbage to get into a store on letenske namesti yesterday, i could only laugh at the chants of "police state." if these people are so concerned about police states, why don't they put their energies towards demonstrating for something that matters. where are they when only 20-30 people show up to oppose the iraq war or russian slaughter in chechnya or real repression in belarus? people around the world are being locked up and mowed down by unscrupulous regimes and these people turn out en masse to defend techno music. great vibe indeed. |
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Pacman
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Tue Aug 2nd 13:48 2005 / #61 |
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I thought the same thing as well. It would be nice to see a protest this large against the iraq war, but then again, people would be saying "why are the czechs demonstrating, do they really think they'll change the US policy in the middle east" This happened because most of the people were either effected directly or knew someone who was beaten at this years czechtek. And now the polices actions have consequences, and a bunch of dredy kids might be the straw that breaks the camels back, and force the prime minister, and police commisioner to resign. Havel was among the attendees at the protest, and Dnes is now painting the police as a corrupt organization that acted illegally. I suggest you watch some of the videos of what happened at czechtek. I had one friend who was beaten so badly he couldn't walk, and the police just left him in a field. Police acted terribly at czechtek, and they thought they would get away with it, now it looks like they didn't, as is evident in the fact that they won't even show their faces anywhere near the demonstration. Protests like these are largely personal, and while the situation in belarus is definitley worse, the simple fact is that not too many people in czech are really effected by it. |
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mrw
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Tue Aug 2nd 14:50 2005 / #62 |
I don't know what CzechTek is, since I've never been to Prague, but I'm desperate to be involved in your conversation anyway, especially since it appears you are talking about anarchists. I can tell you, if my daughter went to an anarchist music festival in her bra... Not under my roof, liberal missy!
Also, it reminds me of Ronald Reagan, who is a true American hero of the times, because what he did was to bring down communism in countries like Prague and Poland and Czechoslovakia. |
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skin
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Thu Aug 4th 04:55 2005 / #63 |
I'm sure you're not a real person now mrw*.
Get real #60, I'm organising a 24 hour protest at the Foreign Office to sort out the situation vis a vis Burma, tomorrow at 05.00 hours. See you there with your best over-earnest face soldier.
And why isn't music and freedom of movement important in your life?
* Though I did mean to say fairly comic all the same.
But it's not going to last much longer. |
Kweez
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Tue Aug 2nd 15:55 2005 / #64 |
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It would be great if all the victims of pickpocketing or taxi rip-offs in Prague got together to demonstrate at Letna. Police might take the issue seriously. There wouldn't be enough room for everyone up there! |
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skin
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Tue Aug 2nd 16:02 2005 / #65 |
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Slashing a few taxi tyres might not help but would feel good. |
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jeff
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Tue Aug 2nd 16:20 2005 / #66 |
ARG - lost my response to GETREAL >
But - Here's my quick recap: Did you read *any* of the statements, websites - see any photos? It is not about the music.
ALso - yes i agree that there are bigger Bushes to burn around the world, but saying NO to cops in riot gear beating kids is important. Just because there are bigger battles doesn't mean you do not fight the one in front of you. I was inspired by the last couple days. People coming together. Telling the CRETINS that is NOT ok. |
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get real
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[anonymous]
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Tue Aug 2nd 17:14 2005 / #67 |
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according to the ctk news agency, 45 cretins (to use your simplistic term for police) were also treated for injuries. seems like the dancing children weren't exactly pacifists. czechtek has been allowed to occur for years under questionable legal terms, treating locals to days of soulless, blaring techno music and leaving behind mountains of garbage in a countryside that is already an environmental basket case. this hardly rises to the level of a police state. this whole event is little more than a tool for populists on both sides of the political spectrum to manipulite a gullible public. it's touching to see right-wing icon vaclav klaus siding with the techno zombies. vive la a revolution. |
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skritek
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Tue Aug 2nd 17:53 2005 / #68 |
Get real has some good points. The issue has now been taken up by politicians of every color and it will be over politicized. But if kids want to go into the woods and listen to "souless techno music", or "devil music" or any kind of music and do it legally (this time), they should not be subjected to beatings at the hands of the police. However, they should respect the environment and the neighbors and not make general asses of themselves as some of them did last night in Letna. This year they had addressed this by having all the soundsystems pay 5,000kc for the cleanup of the site. As for the neighbors being able to hear the music, I am not sure about that for this year. In years past it has been a problem.
Yet, there wouldn't have been any injuries to the police or the protesters, and no needless deaths, if the police and the ministry had engaged the festival organizers and tried to come up with a diplomatic solution to the problem. Instead they created a bigger public saftey issue than there was previously by blocking the highway, and sending people who were obviosly intoxicated into their cars to drive away. And they lied. Their hamhanded attempts at damage control with the media doesn't lend any weight to their arguments.
But I do agree with Get Real in the sense that this is blown out of proportion with regards to the lack of activism on what are much larger and more serious human rights issues. But we shouldn't forget that what this is is a symbol of this country's past. Bublan was STB and the police are filled with old Secret Service aparatchiks and people remember.
Where are the kids protesting Iraq, Uganda, Kosovo, etc.? |
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skin
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Tue Aug 2nd 18:22 2005 / #69 |
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Perhaps we should make a list of global problem hot-spots that need sorting out, put them in order of import; Iraq, Afghanistan, N korea, US, Catalan, Uganda, Africa (maybe a sub-division), global warming, female circumsion and so on, once those have been protested about and fixed then "the kids" can address the more mundane matters that effect their day to day lives. |
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Rapunzel*
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Tue Aug 2nd 18:55 2005 / #70 |
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A rota system would be useful - sort of demo of the week. Same chant - different hat - till we get through the list ? |
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Pacman
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Tue Aug 2nd 19:07 2005 / #71 |
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I would like to ask how many of you have attended the Iraqi war protests in Prague, and if you haven't heard of one, then maybe you should try and organise it if you re so concerned about the other issues that need to be addressed. Don't blame the protestors for being sucessful and gaining the attention of politicians and media. the thing that annoys me is the fact that there seems to be an undertone that the czechs don't take issues like the iraqi war seriously, and only come out to party. There is an issue at hand here, and that's why its caught the attention of politicians and media, are the dready techno kids the best spokespeople? of course not. But they are the ones who brought the issue of a premeditated attack on a peaceful outdoor concert to the attention of the public. And they are winning, strangely. I never would have guessed it was possible, but I applaud them for what they are doing, even though, there dosn't seem to really be a "they" in play. Sundays protest was the most spontaneous, anarchic protest I ve ever attended, there were no leaders, and it seemed that most people were there simply because either they, or their friends were assaulted by the police. I ve never seen so many people coming together simply to bring attention to an institution they feel they were wronged by. As it gets more politicized, and the leaders (even within the protest) start saying their message, the whole issue will get more and more muddled, not to mention that people are now traveling from outside the country to attend wednesdays event. It looks as if the goals have been achieved, Bublan and Paroubek are both in trouble, however by having yet another demonstration on wednesday, and the next on saturday, they will keep the issue alive. It would be great to see a resignation by then. I can't imagine it would happen, but I would have never believed that mondays protest would be twice the size of sundays. Remember this all started with about 30 people sitting in front of the ministry of the interior on saturday, as word grew, more and more people kept coming, if even more attend this wednesday I would be absolutely amazed. |
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czechfriend
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Wed Aug 3rd 09:28 2005 / #72 |
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I saw footage on cztv last night where one of the czechtek "kids" was waveing a machete and and other guy with a baseball bad....could it be that the techno people were looking for a fight... or was a baseball tournament part of czechtek? |
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jeff
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Wed Aug 3rd 10:25 2005 / #73 |
Now, come on CZfriend, are you trying to justify the police beating people who had committed no crime by the actions of a couple of nutters? (who else but a nut would plan on fighting 1000 heavily armed riot police with barefeet and a bat?)
I also saw some unpleasantness at the Delvita near the Interior Ministry the other night > A few kids causing drunken trouble there. Making a mess and screaming 'Police State'. It's a shame and bad for the demonstrations as a whole. But i can't hold these couple of idiots up as examples of who the group are as a whole.
That would be like saying all cops are nazis because of a couple of police skinheads in Ostrava. Not tenable. You argument while maybe true of a couple kids, is not true of the whole. While maybe scary-looking, this is a peace loving group. |
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czechfriend
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Wed Aug 3rd 11:02 2005 / #74 |
Jeff if you have machetes and baseball bats (and some newsreporters from LN and MFDnes say they also threw molotov cocktails) then it totally takes away from their credibilty that they were just peacefully listening to music. A cop in any country has the right to defend himself. If you are a protester and you chain yourself to the ground and cops beat the crap out of you that is wrong but if you are wielding a machete in your hand and your friends are throughing molotov coctails then how can you expect the police not to hurt you.
Nazi cops in ostrava -takes away from police credibilty
machete armed and molotov cocktail throwing - takes away crediblity of the claim that you are a just wanted to listen to music. |
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jeff
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Wed Aug 3rd 11:14 2005 / #75 |
There were just a couple people acting like this, CZFriend.. They were not the norm..
My point is that the actions of 2 out of a total of 1000s (or is it 100s?) can not be held up to judge the whole.. |
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Micah
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Wed Aug 3rd 11:29 2005 / #76 |
Also, the cops stole and damaged lots of expensive equipment. Granted, it's equipment used to make crap music ;-) but still, it is PRIVATE PROPERTY. Imagine that a cop comes to your home and tries to steal your laptop.
To make things worse, the idiot cops who volunteer for "missions" like this do so because they CAN'T WAIT to bust some hippy skulls. There are a disproportionately large number of skinheads on the police force here, there's no denying it. If the powers that be offer them a chance to go beat up on some defenseless kids in a field, who do you think is going to volunteer? The ones who need the money badly, and the ones who will enjoy causing trouble.
Sorry, but any licks those kids got in were well earned, in my opinion. |
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czechfriend
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Wed Aug 3rd 11:32 2005 / #77 |
It only takes a couple and perhaps even one person to kill somebody. If you are a orginzer you undertake the difficult task of being responsible for your people. If this whole thing is about personal freedom I'm yet to see somebody mention the one persons freedom ends where any other persons freedom starts. I
It is not suprsied that the public opnion is not fully either behind the police or behind the czechtekers. The general public understands that both of the groups are a bunch of dweebs. |
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czechfriend
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Wed Aug 3rd 11:36 2005 / #78 |
"but still, it is PRIVATE PROPERTY. Imagine that a cop comes to your home and tries to steal your laptop. "
Yeah if you are doing something illegal with your property they the cops have the right, again in any country to confisicateit. Child porn. Drug money. |
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eso
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Wed Aug 3rd 11:46 2005 / #79 |
Only few points.
- Contract was only for one small estate - thousands od people cannot fit there. They lied to owner, that there will be only about one hundred people. They hav'nt permission from local authorities either.
- Many people was on surrounding estates. Their owners don't permit it and they ask police to act.
- Some people attacked police - I see it in tv, they throw stones and botles on them.
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on other hand, jam on D5 was police's fault a their strategy was poor. |
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ck1
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Wed Aug 3rd 11:54 2005 / #80 |
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CF, am I to understand that you're trying to draw a comparison between making loud music in a field and kiddie porn? Just curious... |
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[ anonymous ]
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Wed Aug 3rd 11:59 2005 / #81 |
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much of czechtek's allure is in its questionable legal status and its organizers know this very well and cultivate it. they go to great lengths to organize the event in the most secretive, non-transparent manner possible. there is no reason organizers could not follow the rules other festivals do. the cynicism of the organizers is all too familiar. they are far more media savvy than the politicians or police, and they know that pictures on tv of hundreds of police in riot gear will guarantee them more kids looking for pseudo rebellion. now our great civic heroes are taking a brave stand in a parking lot at strahov. residents, including students in the local dorms, have filed hundreds of complaints about the noise, but the brave young zombies seem unphased by anyone's right to peace and quiet. recognizing the rights of others would strip them of their victim status. as for the inspiring protests, has anyone ever seen a czech government office at 5 p.m.? newsflash: they're empty. your're sitting in front of an empty building. if you're so concerned about civil rights, why not protest when the minister is present? this would of course require getting out of bed before the afternoon, and it's not nearly as much fun to party, i mean "protest" at 9:00 a.m. |
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Pacman
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Wed Aug 3rd 12:11 2005 / #82 |
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Police didn't have the right to go onto Private Property. The owner of the property said that he did not want the police there, but the the police came anyway, and were in effect, tresspassing onto his property. Also when the Police attacked, they cut off access to the concert goers cars, so there was nowhere to run except onto private property. If they were so concerned about keeping people off of private property then why did they tear gas the group that was on the private property that they were designated to be on? When people are being closed in on both sides I think they will most likely feel a little bit entrapped, and probably start fighting back. This was a police fuck up from they beginning, and now they have to pay for their actions. Their actions have resulted in the deaths of two people now, I think that this is a bit drastic consequence for people who just wanted to go to the countryside and party. |
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mrw-original
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Wed Aug 3rd 12:14 2005 / #83 |
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My daughter. Has anyone seen my daughter? |
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Micah
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Wed Aug 3rd 12:13 2005 / #84 |
That's nonsense, anonymous. God knows why, but the organizers actually like that music. They like the vibe, which I can respect, of keeping the events non-commercial. That culture was never about a mass audience. It was never about 800 CZK tickets, 90 CZK parking, giant Semtex balloons and VIP tents with dopey strippers shitfaced on Vodka. It was about rolling lots of shitty pills and having unprotected sex with unwashed strangers after dancing all night to rhythmic computer malfunctions. It's the difference between Janis Joplin and Alannis Morissette, Iggy Pop and Kurt Cobain, PsychicTV and Underworld. It's about authenticity. Some people get it, some people wait until it's served to them at McDonalds.
As for the protest - some people work during the day. Not everyone who is concerned about illegal police actions are also interested in free techno parties. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. |
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Pacman
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Wed Aug 3rd 12:25 2005 / #85 |
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In concerns of the building being empty, the last protest started at 3 specifically because people would be in the building, and grow to its peak by 4 (when they get off of work. The workers were trapped in the building and had to use the underground tunnels from communism in order to go home from work. So yes, getting the attention of the people working in the building has been considered, and was sucessfully implemented. |
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[ anonymous ]
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Wed Aug 3rd 12:35 2005 / #86 |
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it is not nonsense at all. there are no legal requirements to charge czk 800 for tickets or have semtex balloons. there are, however, basic requirements for organizing events of that size and czechtek organizers intentionally and repeatedly flaunt them. i know our brave techno-civil rights campaigners are not exactly the brightest group, but as many posters in this forum have noted, there are lots of non-commercial options the organizers could pursue that would spare everyone this same lame story each year, but that would rob the organizers and participants of a lot of much coveted drama. |
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Pacman
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Wed Aug 3rd 13:14 2005 / #87 |
And there are also legal requirements that police have to wear badges to identify themselves. There are also legal requirements that say what kind of force the police should use. Come on, do you really think the two people who died because of this action deserved it, the police response was absolutely overblown. The police were arresting people while jamming guns into the backs of their heads, they brought a tank, no not an armoured car but a fucking abrams tank. You'd like to paint this as a bunch of dredy kids who just want to party, but in reality there is a more serious issue at play underneath all the drunkenes and bass, and that is that two people have been killed because of police actions, hundreds have been injured, and even Klaus said that he hasn't seen this sort of oppression since Comunism, that's a pretty bold statement for a czech to make. Vaclav Havel came and supported the protestors as well. The protestors are definitley not my first choice as a spokesperson, but what they are fighting for is gaining ground, not because of their excellent communication skills, but because they are right, the police overreacted, killed two people, and now they realise that they fucked up, and this may even force the prime minister to resign. You can view footage of police throwning gernades into people cars after smashing their windows, and a man filming what is happening is approached by a cop pointing his gun at him right before the cop knowcks the camera out of his hand.
this is my favorite quote from Parouback,
" These are no dancing children. .......... This core is built from people with dangerous anarchist motives and they are internationally connected.......... and hour after hour thousands come and the police forces cannot stop them."
czech article can be found here
http://zpravodajstvi.centrum.cz/domov/clanek.phtml?id=381821 |
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[ anonymous ]
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[anonymous]
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Wed Aug 3rd 13:41 2005 / #88 |
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you need to turn down the techno and calm down. the police did not kill two people when they intervened on saturday. such hysterical claims serve no purpose. one czechtek participant was tragically struck by a truck driver as he walked along the side of the road at around 4 a.m. saturday. according to ctk, however, a total of 89 policemen have been treated for injuries including "fractures, consussions and spinal contusions." according to ctk, 35 czechtek participants were treated for injuries. and please don't be taken in by mr klaus and his "bold" statements. klaus wouldn't know police repression if it hit him in his glasses. he sat comfortably in a state-run institute under communism and like the vast majority of czechs lent no support to the few czechs who did fight the system (always in a peaceful manner, despite the fact that they actually did live in a real police state, not a make believe one, i might add.) for klaus and the ods this is nothing more than a chance to take shots at a center-left government whose popularity is on the rise. |
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skin
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Wed Aug 3rd 17:10 2005 / #89 |
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You know a lot of the injuries to 89 police are the sort most people wouldn't bother mentioning, war of statistics and laying blame. |
peter
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Wed Aug 3rd 17:20 2005 / #90 |
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Hey, I like Underworld. |
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skin
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Wed Aug 3rd 23:24 2005 / #91 |
If only they played Underworld Peter, I went there this eve' and that can't be termed dance music. Over the coming year if every dog that attends this event were trained to attack a storm trooper in black the ravers could jump up and down in peace.
You say those involved in Czechtek coverted a couple of deaths Anon, really? Didn't know there was a death till I saw it here, what caused the none traffic one? If police did won't they have a case to answer? I saw news clip of 2 coppers holding a man down whilst their co-worker seemed intent on breaking some ribs or/and putting his kidneys out of action on a forever basis. No idea what he'd down before, I really hope it was breaking some bones, probably looking like someone who throw a big stick in the polices direction (at this sort of carry on why does some twat pick up half a pine tree, swing 360 and launch it 2 foot?). |
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Truck
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Thu Aug 4th 09:42 2005 / #92 |
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Wow. IT SURE was a hell of an action last night. GOt no idea how many thousands in Letna. Damn impressive .. |
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Micah
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Thu Aug 4th 11:58 2005 / #93 |
Many hundreds, at least!
http://prague.tv/galleries/image.php?gallery=Dogs-of-Czech-t ek |
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peter
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Thu Aug 4th 13:16 2005 / #94 |
Someone should change the (English) Wikipedia entry for Czechtek...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czechtek
"A herd of braindead idiots destroying property, environment and themselves at a "free"tekno party. The herd gathers once or twice a year somewhere in the Czech Republic, coming from several European countries - Italy, Austria, England, etc. Idiots on drugs abound everywhere..." |
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Pacman
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Thu Aug 4th 13:51 2005 / #95 |
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stay home |
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peter
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Thu Aug 4th 14:21 2005 / #96 |
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I do. |
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skritek
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Thu Aug 4th 14:23 2005 / #97 |
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I was there last night, and I am no fan of headbanging, nose-bleed techno. I do like electronic music, and some of the stuff I heard on the second stage was great. And the vibe was great. Some people get it, some people don't. To cast all these people as unintelligent "zombies" or anything else just makes you look stupid. They are human beings. Many of them have jobs and families, and are quite articulate. It's what their into and it really doesn't hurt anyone. Like pacman said, if you don't like it stay home. It's like saying all people who listen to Dido or U2 are vapid, commercial, volkswagon-driving yuppie scum without an original thought in their corporate, co-opted brains. Grow up. People are people and they should be able to come together and do what they like so long as they respect the rights of others. |
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Pacman
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Thu Aug 4th 14:32 2005 / #98 |
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Then you must have a great point of reference for your assumptions. |
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peter
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Thu Aug 4th 15:31 2005 / #99 |
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What assumptions? The quote was from the Wikipedia entry, which I suggested someone change. |
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get real
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Thu Aug 4th 15:35 2005 / #100 |
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that's exactly the problem. they don't respect the rights of others and they never have. every year it's the same story: an outright illegal or questionably legal gathering of thousands of middle class pseudo rebels tearing up the countryside and forcing anyone within earshot to endure round-the-clock techno for days on end. why can't they simply follow the same rules for organizing festivals that hundreds of other groups do? why the secrecy and non-transparency? the answer is obvious: doing so would remove the element of excitement over a possible clash with "authority" which so many of these people crave to validate their couch-potato style anti-establishment status. these people are every bit as co-opted as their miserable corporate counterparts. they all dress the same and mouth the same line. |
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skritek
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Thu Aug 4th 16:28 2005 / #101 |
Get real. In all fairness, this year was supposed to be different. The reason for not announcing the venue was because they knew the cops were gunning for them no matter if they had legal clearance or not. And this has come out in the various attempts at obfuscation and out right intimidation they were practicing trying to get people to sign some complaint. Last years clean-up didn't happen because the cops forced everyone off the field and wouldn't allow them back to clean.
This year the venue was far enough away from the neighboring people so that the sound would not carry past the highway.
As for people following a trend, dressing the same, listening to the same music etc, well that's just humans for you. I guess you're different from the rest of us.
"doing so would remove the element of excitement over a possible clash with "authority" which so many of these people crave to validate their couch-potato style anti-establishment status."
I don't think anyone went there to get their ass beat by some riot cops to affirm thier anti-establishment status. How many of them do you know personally? I know quite a few and come to think of it they are all pretty talented and articulate people with-get this - JOBS. You're elitist view of these people does a disservice to them and to you. |
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Efka
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Thu Aug 4th 16:41 2005 / #102 |
The brutal attack of czech police upon participants of free techno festival CzechTek:
Watter cannons, weeping gas, quarterstaves, blood. Democracy in the Czech Republic 2005? No, the shot of czech police against dancing people of technoparty CzechTek- 30.7.2005. In order of minister of the interior Frantisek Bublan and prime minister Jiri Paroubek over 1.000 police hoplites aggressed on 10.000 participants of music festival without any warning and with an unusual brutality. They broke into the legaly rented grass field and they bat people without any differencies in age or sex. There were over 50 dancers injured, among them one 14 years old girl who had to be operated without delay. Huge protests in the whole Czech Republic have been taking place for 4 days already, just in Prague about 5.000 people are protesting regularly every day asking for their human rights.
Protesting participants of the multicultural festival CzechTek 2005, who were stricken by the brutal police shot, with the big support of public are appealling to all healthy thinking people in foreign countries to support the fight against breaking human and civil rights in our country through demonstrations in front of embassies and consulates of the Czech Republic. |
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get real
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Thu Aug 4th 17:09 2005 / #103 |
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skritek: i don't think i am so different from everyone. i'm just not jumping on the techno zombies as freedom fighters bandwagon. if you choose to give them every benefit of the doubt, that's certainly your right. i choose not to. my original question still stands: why do these people think they don't have to follow the same rules everyone else has to when organizing an event for 10-15,000 people? the idea that if they had the police would have still intervened is simply not true. in fact, the police have sat on the sidelines every year as this great cultural event has unfolded despite hundreds of complaints from residents. they sat on the sidelines once again when these people were blasting music all night at strahov, obivious to the complaints of people who have to live there. i doubt you would like thousands of people milling through your apartment to get to your neighbor's, who may or may not have a permit to hold a non-stop techno party. czechtek organizers have been pulling this for years. they could avoid the whole thing by organizing in an open and fully legal manner. they choose not to, because this would disappoint all the pseudo rebels. as for their articulateness, i will admit they seem fluent in sign language, primarily the use of their middle finger, which was the most prominent expression at the "protest" and in all the coverage in the czech media. you also might want to check out the local delvita, which was forced to hire a small army of plain-clothes police to prevent these good working folk from stealing uncontrollably. in a mere 15 minutes there i watched 6 people rounded up for shoving their bags full of merchandise and trying to walk out. |
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Pacman
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Fri Aug 5th 02:43 2005 / #104 |
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The reason why they haven't even showed their faces at any of the demonstrations in prague is because of one thing, and its something you know quite well. POLITICS. Parouback said that this was going to be the last czechtek to take place in the Czech Republic before it even happened, the order to attack the crowd, use water cannons, shoot tear gas, use concussion gernades, and bring a tank to the field were all orders from above the chain of comand, the same chain of command that decided not to even show up to a protest that is literally in front of the police headquarters, where thousands of people are hurling paint and eggs all at their bosses workplace. how many arrests have their been made during the demonstrations where the violations include damaging government property and holding an illegal gathering of over 10,000 people on state (not even private, Letna belongs to the state, property) property......0.....And you know there have been absolutely 0 arrests even though they are breaking a lot more laws than they were when they were sitting in a field in the middle of nowhere? The answer is the same...POLITICS. Parouback tried to implement a tough guy appraoch, he fired the previous drug tsar, saying that he was too lenient on soft drugs (marijuana for the most part), and he pledged to rid the czech republic of free techno parties where by his words "kids are not dancing at these parties, this is a media saavy group of international anarchists" Now Parouback thought that he had public support with him, he thought he would be able to be tough on these guys and shows that he's a tough guy. Well there was a monkey wrench in the gears, and that was that he didn't realise his police force was full of badly trained wimps who had never encountered this kind of situation before. The police overreacted, they beat up a few young girls,they have tons of pictures on the internet of police taking off their badges so as not to be identified (which is illegal) someone died from mysterious causes (no one is still sure if this guy was blinded by cs gas, or forced from the official party area onto the road where he was hit and killed by a truck), and videos of gun wielding cops begin to flood the internet and television, not to mention the abrams tank that they decided to bring to party. This was not expected, and suddenly we have Vaclav Havel coming in front of an egg soaked Minister of Interior to show his support for a bunch of pierced dredy kids with dogs, then we have Vaclav Klaus capitalising on public opinion to try and thow out the prime minister who is now slipping in his public opinion polls (around 70 percent want him kicked out of office) and now this little fght in a field, has become a political issue, and it looks as if the Czechtek kids are going to win (as well as the politicians who want Parouback out of office of course:) It is evident that they are winning because it seems that already the person who orders the police has already felt the pressure and decided to change his tactics. If you think that having a party in the middle of a field in the middle of nowhere is a great infringement of private property rights, how about a party where the participants literally trash a government building, and then hold their party on private state owned property right behind the police headquarters, where there are definitley a much higer number of neighbors to offend (even though these demonstrations have always ended by 10) and many more laws to break, such as building campfires on state owned property in the middle of a city. And what was the police response to these offenses........NOTHING....they didn't even get near the party in prague, and why do you think this was, well I would guess that has to do with their commander, and where he is taking his orders from. I can guaruntee you, next years czechtek will be fully legal, because neither the organisors nor participants want to relive what happened at this years czechtek. see you at Letna on saturday. mej se |
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skin
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Fri Aug 5th 03:21 2005 / #105 |
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" i will admit they seem fluent in sign language, primarily the use of their middle finger, which was the most prominent expression at the "protest" and in all the coverage in the czech media." Media savvy then get real? |
scottymac
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Fri Aug 5th 08:37 2005 / #106 |
"then we have Vaclav Klaus capitalising on public opinion to try and thow out the prime minister who is now slipping in his public opinion polls (around 70 percent want him kicked out of office)"
Pacmac, nice try, but anybody that follows Czech politics knows Paroubek is (was?) rising in the opinion polls. Last poll showed he was the most popular Czech politician right after the dead culture minister. |
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Rapunzel*
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Fri Aug 5th 10:12 2005 / #107 |
Actually it was Vaclav "The Man" Klaus who lead the last Czech poll with a whopping 70% approval rating.
Paroubek was second - rising quickly. |
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get real
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[anonymous]
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Fri Aug 5th 10:40 2005 / #108 |
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skin: media savvy to their target audience: couch potato rebels with nothing else to do in august. a big throng of sheep giving the finger to anyone and everyone (in this case, an empty building) is a guaranteed attraction. |
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Kweez
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Fri Aug 5th 10:44 2005 / #109 |
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I agree with Get Real. |
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Efka
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[anonymous]
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Fri Aug 5th 12:07 2005 / #110 |
Here: one of the hundreds of the police attacks on Saturday DAY!!! People says, that with the most brutalities cops waited for the second attack when it was dark. So check this one.....and there're lots of videos like this
http://media.visions.cz/moire/3ka.mov
Also, please, if anyone here's got any press or media contacts abroad, help us, we need to get this thing out. Thanks a lot. |
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V
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Fri Aug 5th 12:33 2005 / #111 |
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thank you Efka for this . Let's make sure these cop assholes go to jail for a long time. |
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scottymac
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Fri Aug 5th 12:43 2005 / #112 |
Rapunzel, Rapunzel, here is the poll from one week ago...
http://www.praguemonitor.com/ctk/?id=20050728F01326;story=Pa roubek-second-most-popular-Czech-politician
"Late Culture Minister Pavel Dostal (CSSD) remained the most popular politician, with 73 percent support shortly before his death from cancer."
Herr Doctor Professor President's absense from the list is indeed very odd. Maybe the pollsters forgot to include him on the mutiple choice quiz? Or maybe they just regarded him as a criminal rather than a politician. |
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Pacman
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Fri Aug 5th 12:48 2005 / #113 |
"It was an attack against a kind of authentic togetherness, an authentic community, ie something which in this age - filled as it is with egoism and cynicism - society desperately needs."
Vaclav Havel |
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scottymac
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Fri Aug 5th 12:52 2005 / #114 |
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Holy shit! The guy with the video camera really got the goods. That was brutal. |
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Dumb Question
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Fri Aug 5th 13:29 2005 / #115 |
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According to Czech law, how many times is a police officer allowed to hit an individual who is subject to arrest, or to detain that individual? |
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ugly
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Fri Aug 5th 13:32 2005 / #116 |
Get Real, get real tyvole. None of these kids had any political desires whatsoever. Now they have been given the reason, and the power, to overthrow Paroubek the commie pig, and they'll do it.
couch potato rebels with nothing else to do? They had the shit kicked out of them for no reason, what else will they possibly do except fight till they win?
See you saturday :-D |
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Pacman
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Fri Aug 5th 13:40 2005 / #117 |
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a better question would be according to czech law, how many times is an officer who has taken off his badge number allowed to beat an unarmed participant, and then neither arrest or detain him, but simply leave him in a field far away from medical attention |
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Rapunzel*
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Fri Aug 5th 13:49 2005 / #118 |
You could be right, Scotty.
Looks like they left Klaus off the list - perhaps to give other politicians a chance, or possibly he wasn't classed as a politician any longer as President.
This same polling agency STEM polled last week and - as reported July 26th -
"(PDM staff with CTK) 26 July - President Vaclav Klaus enjoys the highest level of the people's trust..... President Klaus continues to top the popularity ladder. According to the July poll, his approval rating grew by three percent since June, reaching 73 percent."
Paroubek was second - the rest nowhere.
http://www.praguemonitor.com/ctk/?id=20050725F01159 |
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Dumb Question
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Fri Aug 5th 13:50 2005 / #119 |
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Or perhaps: How many times is a police officer allowed to kick a man on the ground? |
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Efka
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Fri Aug 5th 14:19 2005 / #120 |
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And if you need more go to http://www.policejnistat.cz on the main page there's new video from their another smart action; 7!!! cops resting 1!!! guy using the gun!!! (they're not alowed to put out the gun when the person is not armed. |
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Truck
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Fri Aug 5th 14:23 2005 / #121 |
Hey people -on front and Efka posted this above -
http://media.visions.cz/moire/3ka.mov
Watch that and tell me some cops shouldn't be fucking arrested themselves..
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Efka
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Fri Aug 5th 14:37 2005 / #122 |
PLEASE COME EVERYONE TO JOIN US AT LETNA TOMMORROW 3PM WE NEED AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE THERE, DON'T FORGET TO SIGN UP THE PETITION AND ENJOY YOURSELF IN THE RHYTMS OF THE SOUND SYSTEMS.
We know now that the most important person will be there too - Vaclav Havel. |
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skin
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Fri Aug 5th 15:12 2005 / #123 |
"Rythm of the sound systems" "enjoy"? Can I bring some tunes down to help with that?
I'll be there, how the likes of get real can watch that video and justify the police action as warrented due to noise and mess. From footage it appeared the man WALKED toward the police to say something, probably offensive, was then punched in the face (proper policing?), the other police who'd been looking the other way then turned round and filled him in, using 4 kicks to the head and many shots with the butt of night stick to the ribs, seemingly in an attempt to break most of them. I suspect the police can't be identified? And if were their actions would not be considered excessive by authourities?
Also you can see just how much the police love it, this is what they signed up for. job perk for shit pay. if that had been my brother I'd of been syphoning of some petrol and filling pilsner bottles. |
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Efka
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Fri Aug 5th 15:34 2005 / #124 |
Lots of my friends were beaten up, even my 150 cm little tiny friend - girl, who went to ask 2 cops what she's suppose to do when she's drunk to drive her car. 1 hit her with the stick and 2 were kicking her while she was lying on the ground. When my friend run to them and shouting on them "what the f... you doing to her?" they just answered: "Come to join us and you'll be able to beat girls too, it's fun."
And more then half of the cops didn't have their ID numbers, couple of them did but when someone was trying to write them down, they beated him up, ripped them down and walked away. |
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jeff
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Fri Aug 5th 15:49 2005 / #125 |
None of that was proper policing - how could it be? - he is begging to be let go as 5 of them break his ribs - ( he was doing NOTHING wrong .. - unless there was something before we did not see - but i doubt it ...)
Another link:
http://cluster-superhosting.policejnistat.cz/czechtek2005-gu n.avi
Why the hell does he even have a gun pulled out? These guys are paid public servants to protect us - not fucking storm troopers to bash young people's heads -ARG!!!!!!!!!1.. |
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[ anonymous ]
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[anonymous]
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Fri Aug 5th 16:16 2005 / #126 |
As a question of responsibility, it would be in those who would have studied police behavior during the WTO demonstrations. There were apparently no efforts after WTO to retrain police to use active self restraint in dealing with large groups of people.
What is important now is not that Tiennanmen Paroubek or Burma Bublan are locked up (much as they were responsible), the issue is to make sure that the police are radically retrained so that when political officials make decisions before running of to Switzerland, the footsoldiers will understand how to behave. |
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get real
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Fri Aug 5th 17:03 2005 / #127 |
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well, while you entertain fantasies of living in communist china or a real police state like burma while grooving to the vibe with a beer in your hand in front of the empty interior ministry, maybe you can take up a collection to fund the re-education of the czechtek organizers so that they can learn to follow the simple rules for organizing large public events. everyone else in the country seems to have mastered them. i doubt you'll see the police strongarming anyone down at sazavafest or any of the other festivals going on in your make believe police state this weekend. funny how year after year after year the hardworking, articulate czechtekers just can't seem to get it right. |
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skritek
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Fri Aug 5th 17:55 2005 / #128 |
Get Real. The Strahov thing is totally right on. All of those soundsystems were foreigners who showed no repsect for this country and took advantage of the situation. I think they should have been punished but in the current climate no one was willing to do that. And yes, the Delvita idiots make everyone look bad. But the thing to focus on, since we are talking about the rule of law, is that this year the party was 100% legal.
* Update: thanks anonymous, didn't get to the paper today. Not 100% legal. My mistake. Thanks.
Now, in the past it has been a problem but these problems were addressed this year. If we are going to talk about rule of law and respect for said law then the blame lies squarely on the police. I think you're going to see just how organized, vocal and focused your "zombies" are. When Paroubek and Bublan are licking their wounds in some Ministry backwater (where they both belong) I guess we'll all go back to being couch potatoes. Funny, Get Real, I am one of those anit-establishment couch potatoes in your world. I don't mind. You underestimate me and them.
Anonymous. Right on. When are we going to see some more humane policing? Correct training. HAve you ever seen how Dutch cops handle these situations? It's night and day from police here. They actually talk to the people, they treat people like human beings. They know that illegal drugs is not a law enforcement issue but a public health issue. War on drugs. Ha. "It's a war on personal freedom, keep that in mind at all times." -Bill Hicks |
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Pacman
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Fri Aug 5th 17:19 2005 / #129 |
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How about raiding an illegal gathering on state property, tear gassing the people, forcing them to drive home drunk, and then lying to the press about what happened. While the legality of czechtek is debateable, the demonstrations taking place now are most definitely illegal, and are taking place in front of the police headquarters. Why do you think they have chosen not to employ the same tactics here? You think it has something to do with the fact that they know they fucked up, and want to leave bad enough alone. As far as I can see, you are the only one on this board comparing the use of force at czechtek to those in Burma. This is not Burma, this is supposed to be a democracy where police are held responsible for their actions, that's why there's demonstrations to confront what people believe was an abuse of force. You can continue to believe in the great tactics of the czech police force, and you can continue to defend what is obviously not official police procedure (throwing gernades into parked cars, bringing a military tank to a gathering of citizens, removing badges so the police have no accountability, using guns to intimidate anyone filming what happened,forcing drunk people to drive onto the public highways, and beating people while they are in cuffs) Maybe because you'd like to give the police more power to get away with these actions. I think you've mixed up your hatred for dredy youth and techno music with what is obviously an abuse of police force. The police have changed their tactics, you seem to still believe what they did was the right thing to do. Im glad you are not in any position of power. |
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[ anonymous ]
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Fri Aug 5th 17:28 2005 / #130 |
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sorry, but you're incorrect on the 100 % legal thing. in monday's mlada fronta there was a list of the rules the czechtek "organizers" failed to meet. the most basic is keeping the location of an event of that size secret. there were a number of others. as for the rule of law, several investigations are already under way in this alleged police state. certain police officers should be disciplined or fired or both. we'll see whether that happens or not. demands that the whole government should step down over individual instances of police brutality is the typical hysterical reaction to this whole event. at the same time, i don't think any czechtekers have ever been held responsible for their behavior over the years. according to the czech press, costs for cleanup and damage from previous czechteks have never been paid. |
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Pacman
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Fri Aug 5th 19:38 2005 / #131 |
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I said that the current demonstrations (which have been attended by more people than went to czechtek) are not legally permitted, are on state property, and the participants have actually engaged in definite illegal behavour (egging, spray painting, and holding an illegal gathering of 10,000 people in front ofthe police headquarters) and yet they have received absolutely no reaction from the police. Someone gives orders when to attack a group of illegally gathered people, and that person has decided to change his tactics, for one reason or the other. |
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skin
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Fri Aug 5th 23:55 2005 / #132 |
As the events of Saturday were shown across Europe, on Sky and Euronews that I saw anyway, the police are obviously going to lay low, everyone's waiting for something to happen and all the media will be there.
Get real you haven't so much as said the police action (not a reaction) was even slightly heavy-handed, so I assume you see it as right and just?
If I knew you were my neighbour and had the TV on at midnight I'd break into your place with 5 unstable mates and fill you in you bald headed cunt. You shouldn't have taken the piss and try to have a fun near me. |
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Burtheading
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Sat Aug 6th 01:32 2005 / #133 |
I love the smell of burning skin in the morning.
Make my day. |
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skin
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Sat Aug 6th 07:00 2005 / #134 |
So police all good and just or a lickle bit out of order?
If anyone gives a shit say so: I for one.
breakfast when you ready bu'th'ing. |
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czechfriend
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Sat Aug 6th 14:42 2005 / #135 |
http://www.novinky.cz/krimi/62369-zena-poda-trestni-oznameni -na-hrubiany-z-czechteku.html
Nice one
breif transalation
A Fifty-Four year old women with her husband and three kids who were stuck on the highway because the police blocked the exit.
The women claims that one of tekis bumbed in there car when the women came from the car and told the teki look at what you are doing I am going to call the police. The teki then threatned her that if she does that he will slit her throat. |
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skin
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Sat Aug 6th 15:28 2005 / #136 |
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Just to clarify; do some people believe that all police action was justified? |
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czechfriend
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Sat Aug 6th 16:17 2005 / #137 |
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z66
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Sat Aug 6th 20:40 2005 / #138 |
"Just to clarify; do some people believe that all police action was justified?"
shit anyone that approves of cops beating women/girls/people/people in handcuffs and bringing a tank to a civilian gathering should be locked up or deported.
or at least get a severe fucking beating |
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skin
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Sun Aug 7th 04:16 2005 / #139 |
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I'm waiting for the likes of Get real to condone police action? Go on tell your skinhead copper mates when the football starts and they're wearing their Ultra colours again how hard they looked hammering 16 year old girls (anarchists more than likely) that dress funny and have dreads and tattoos and need educating. Why do you put so much trust in the police here? Are they very good/professional, I hope so because I'd like to live here and trust the old maxim;"A country gets the Police force it deserves". a simple but effictive way of judging a culture, bit like their treatment of animals. |
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[ anonymous ]
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[anonymous]
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Sun Aug 7th 11:04 2005 / #140 |
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[this comment moved to the dump; posted from r4d42.chello.upc.cz] |
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z66
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Sun Aug 7th 18:40 2005 / #141 |
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yea and i think you should be shot with an ak-47 for whatever drug you like to use (maybe caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, or aspirin) and for whatever music you like to hear (like rock, folk, country, r&b whatever) |
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[ anonymous ]
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Sun Aug 7th 19:18 2005 / #142 |
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z66
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Sun Aug 7th 20:06 2005 / #143 |
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[this comment moved to the dump; posted from halhoupro3.halliburton.com] |
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z66
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Sun Aug 7th 20:10 2005 / #144 |
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[this comment moved to the dump; posted from halhoupro3.halliburton.com] |
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[ anonymous ]
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[anonymous]
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Mon Aug 8th 08:13 2005 / #145 |
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great i can see the news: 2 fat backpacker Warcraft playing idiots have heart attacks while waving rubber swords at each other at palmovka metro. |
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czechfriend
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Mon Aug 8th 10:34 2005 / #146 |
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a lot of candidates for the dump here |
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Forums Admin
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Mon Aug 8th 11:05 2005 / #147 |
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Yes, and have done so. You guys (esp - r4d42.chello.upc.cz ) take it easy. |
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Truck
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Mon Aug 8th 11:10 2005 / #148 |
Police action against CzechTek inappropriate, Senate says
(PDM staff with CTK) 8 August - The Senate considers the police action against CzechTek participants last weekend to be inappropriate.
In a resolution approved after a nearly five-hours discussion Friday, the Senate called for a rapid and thorough investigation into the action, which it said was not commensurate with the situation on the spot.
The prime minister and the interior minister are to present the final report to the senators.
http://www.praguemonitor.com/ctk/?id=20050805E05061;
story=Police-action-against-CzechTek-inappropriate-Senate-says |
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peter
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Mon Aug 8th 12:48 2005 / #149 |
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What the hell is wrong with Warcraft? |
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skritek
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Mon Aug 8th 13:51 2005 / #150 |
Crossroads of the culture wars I guess. You right wingers really make your point so eloquently. "Techno freaks should all have their heads kicked in". Wow. that's intelligent. You're probably christian too. Sure glad you're all running America now. Maybe I'll pack my bags and go back to the U.S.A now that it's techno-hippie free and safe for the white man.
idiots. |
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pennypacker
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Mon Aug 8th 15:44 2005 / #151 |
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if you're after eloquent, check out the bald-faced lies attached to the statue of st. wenceslas on wenceslas square: ramblings about "deaths" (plural!) caused by the czech police. maybe someone from the drama squad could update us all on how many children the police slaughtered. i can't seem to find the figure in any of the czech press. and by the way, not everyone who isn't under the delusion that the czech republic is a police state is a radical right-winger. there are plenty of violent responses on this page from people supposedly appalled by violence. |
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skritek
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Wed Aug 10th 01:11 2005 / #152 |
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pennypacker. yeah too much crap on both sides at this point. I believe the official death count is 2. One guy hit on the side of the road and one who died in hospital. I am trying to confirm this with the people at LIP (liga lidskych prav). There are also reports of one French guy who was hit by a police van and then taken away from the scene by the police. There are more than 40 witnesses to this, and there was a statement made by a doctor to the effect that there was someone admitted to the emergency room, but after that there is no record. And if you want some lies, the police have provided plenty of fodder. What lies do you mean specifically other than the deaths, if those are indeed lies? I say this not to be confrontational but you are working at *******, so maybe you have access to more info than we do. |
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manana
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Tue Aug 9th 08:34 2005 / #153 |
Vsem ahoj,
chtela bych se podelit o velmi dramaticky zazitek z CzechTeku.
Bude to znit az neuveritelne, ale vse na tom je pravdive a bylo to tak. Urcite jste uz slyseli spousty informaci a videli sposty zaberu o tom, jak policie CR tuto akci rozehnala. Ja jsem byla primym ucastnikem, spolu jeste s dalsimi kamarady, az do posledni chvile, nez jsme byli nuceni pod palbou slznych plynu tuto louku opustit.
Na konci louky byla uzka polni cesta, tvorila se zde velka fronta aut a vse slo tedy velmi pomulu. Policajtum to bylo ale uplne jedno. V momente, kdy z louky nebylo uz uniku, kvuli zaplnene ceste, jsem si myslela, ze policajti konecne dostanou rozum a prestanou hazet mezi auta nervove plyny. "Uz nas skoro vytlacili, uz nas meli tam, kde nas chteli mit, uz preci konecne musi prestat" myslela jsem si. Ale byla to jen velka naivni myslenka. Ackoliv jsme se nemeli s autem kam hnout a policajti stali porad 10m za autem, palba plynu neprestala.
Plyn drazdil vse, nos, rty, jazyk a nejvic oci, takze jsem slzela a nic nevnimala. Nedalo se dychat. Vybehla jsem z auta ven, do toho velkeho oblaku dymu, chtela jsem tomu utect a nadychat se vzduchu. Ale ten nebyl. Za mnou padali jen dalsi slzaky a bylo to jen a jen horsi. Zacala jsem utikat porad vpred, nic jsem nevidela, jen svetla aut. Plyn byl vsude, nechtel se rozplynout. Byl silny a porad drazdil vsechny vjemy. Asi po 15 minutach chuze, behu, jsem se konecne mohla z hluboka nadechnout. Pak uz jen pockat na auto a rychle, boze rychle domu. Vjeli jsme konecne na dalnici.
Ridic pil pred jizdou alkohol, ale policajtum to bylo naprosto jedno. Byla jsem moc rada, ze uz jedem pryc. Na dalnici jsme potkali policejni auto a plni emoci a nenavisti k policajtum, ridic na ne zatroubil. Predjeli jsme ho a jeli jsme po dalnici dal.
Odplata nas teprve cekala. Policajti nas predjeli a donutili zastavit. Prijeli jeste dalsi dve dodavky plnych cernych kukel, samozrejme bez cisel. Myslim, ze jich tam bylo urcite pres 20. Vytahli ridice ven a zatahli ho do dodavky a zacali ho mlatit. Ja jsem zatim zajistila pojistku ve dverich, aby se na me nedostali. Ale jeden policajt vlezl do auta a z mista ridice me zacel byt do hlavy pendrekem a rval, at otevru. Pak se otevrely dvere a kukla me tahala ven. Mezi tim vytahli i ostatni z aut a mlatili je.
Tahli me k jejich autu, kazdy policajt, kolem ktereho jsem prosla, si do me bouchl pendrekem.
Pak jsem lezela na zemi a vsude kolem me jen kanady. Modlila jsem se, at nedostanu do hlavy, protoze to by byl muj konec. V tom za mnou pribehl David, cely zakrvaceny na hlave a obliceji a zacal me chranit, aby me uz nebili. Vykroutili mi ruku, abych ho pustila.
Davida chytli za vlasy, hodili na zem a zkopali kanadama a obuskem. Kricela jsem na ne, proc to delaji, co jsme jim udelali a at to vysvetli, za co me zmlatili. Rekli, at drzim hubu, nebo ze jeste dostanu. Pak naskocili do aut a rychle odjeli. Cela akce trvala necelych 5 minut. Ostatni z auta byli zbiti hlavne na hlave a pres prsty a ruce, jak si chranili hlavu. David byl dokopany na celem tele. Zavolali jsem sanitku, ktera Davida odvezla do
nejblizsi nemocnice. Skoncil s 5 stehy na hlave a modrinami.
Ja mam modriny a otoky hlavne na hlave, ktera ma boli jeste ted, na
pazi a rukou, na nohach a zadech. To vse od pendreku. A vykroucenou levou ruku v zapesti. David ma na sobe 7 modrin, velikosti dlane a to prevazne od bot a pendreku. Trznou ranu na hlave mu zpusobil pendrek.
Tento zasah policie nemel z technoparty nic spolecneho, nic z akci CzechTek. Byli to policajti, kteri se nedostali na louku a melu chut, jako ostatni, nekoho zmlatit. Byli hodne nabuzeni a bili nas hlava, nehlava. Budeme podavat trestni oznameni na policii CR.
Podporte nas a podepiste petici na
http://www.podnety.cz/index.php?page=czechtek |
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jeff
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Tue Aug 9th 11:06 2005 / #154 |
From radio.cz >> http://www.radio.cz/subscribe/english.html
President wants explanation of CzechTek incident
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President Klaus has once again called on the government to explain the police break up of an open air techno party at the end of July. In a meeting with the Interior Minister Frantisek Bublan on Monday, Mr. Klaus said he was still waiting for a satisfactory explanation as to why the police had used force to break up the CzechTek music festival late last month. The president considers the police intervention "a gross mistake", the interior minister insists it was justified although he says that some individual officers may have broken regulations.
Read in entirety on RADIO.CZ |
pragueboy
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[profile]
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Sun Aug 21st 12:10 2005 / #155 |
brutal czechtek video 2005
http://skylined.org/adamm/police-violence/ |
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