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reepeter
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Fri Mar 26th 16:21 2010 / #1 |
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Delicious. I find it intensely amusing that Democrats are being referred to as "fascists". Fascism, as anyone with at least a high school education would know, is extreme-right conservatism. But, as the 19th-century educator Horace Mann once proclaimed, "Ignorance breeds monsters to fill up the vacancies of the soul that are unoccupied by the verities of knowledge." |
fatman
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Fri Mar 26th 17:18 2010 / #2 |
HA!
And fascism had a bit of a racist streak to say the least. The Republicans being the preferred party of the 'Merican' South sure do fit that profile.
I think the funniest thing of all, is that if Mitt Romney had put out this bill (it's essentially like his plan in Mass.) as president, some if not many Republicans would have voted for it. But those old white paternalists of the South are still reeling from an election that put a black man in the WHITE house.
Strom Thurmond dost liveth on in the Republican Party. |
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ColonelColonel
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Sat Mar 27th 03:24 2010 / #3 |
KKK is the territory of the democrats i.e. Robert Byrd. Democrats are the ones that voted time and again against the the voting rights and civil rights laws. Lincoln was a Republican. You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts. Of course I suppose that is to be expected of anyone that has been in an educational institution anytime in the last 20 or 25 years.
Byrd is still in the Senate. Alcee Hastings the impeached Federal judge is in the house. Charlie Rangel is still in the house. Dingy Harry Reid whose net worth has zoomed from zero to 40 million dollars while in public service is still there. The despicable little Kennedy is still there. What more evidence do you want. I know you don't want evidence you want to rant about people in the American South because it suits your own prejudices and bias.
Anybody that doesn't agree with the socialist Obama is a Nazi racist retard, right? How pitiful your poor little darlings are. Best get Geitner to do your taxes for you so you can a refund on taxes you didn't pay just like the rest of the slaves on the democratic plantation.
Time now for your Kool Aid little ones. |
paulrm
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Sat Mar 27th 11:28 2010 / #4 |
Lincoln was a Republican? He'd turn in his grave to be called, what now passes for, "republican". For that matter, so would Nixon.
Do you REALLY want to compare scandalous behavior between Dems and Reps? |
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fatman
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Sat Mar 27th 13:45 2010 / #5 |
Captain, do you have a passing knowledge of the demographic, geographical, and ideological shifts of the Dems and Reps for the past 160 years?
Ever heard of something called the Southern Strategy?
I'm guessing not, because otherwise you wouldn't have made such an absurd statement. The last progressive Republican president after Lincoln was T.R., and the last good Republican president was Eisenhower, who you guys would consider a socialist.
80-90% tax rate on the rich, uh-huh?
Anyway, this is apparent to even a child. Here's a task for you Captain, take the presidential electoral maps of the last 3 elections. Then take a map of the civil war, and tell me what you see.
And for me, I'll look for all those minorities in the House and Senate on the Republican side. I'm betting I won't be too successful.
So sorry to burst your bubble Cappy, any KKK is definitely voting for the GOP.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/32245200@N00/4446867076/ |
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fatman
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Sat Mar 27th 14:20 2010 / #6 |
http://www.nytimes.com//2010/03/27/opinion/27blow.html
Whose Country Is It?
By CHARLES M. BLOW
Published: March 26, 2010
The far-right extremists have gone into conniptions.
The bullying, threats, and acts of violence following the passage of health care reform have been shocking, but they’re only the most recent manifestations of an increasing sense of desperation.
It’s an extension of a now-familiar theme: some version of “take our country back.” The problem is that the country romanticized by the far right hasn’t existed for some time, and its ability to deny that fact grows more dim every day. President Obama and what he represents has jolted extremists into the present and forced them to confront the future. And it scares them.
Even the optics must be irritating. A woman (Nancy Pelosi) pushed the health care bill through the House. The bill’s most visible and vocal proponents included a gay man (Barney Frank) and a Jew (Anthony Weiner). And the black man in the White House signed the bill into law. It’s enough to make a good old boy go crazy.
Hence their anger and frustration, which is playing out in ways large and small. There is the current spattering of threats and violence, but there also is the run on guns and the explosive growth of nefarious antigovernment and anti-immigrant groups. In fact, according to a report entitled “Rage on the Right: The Year in Hate and Extremism” recently released by the Southern Poverty Law Center, “nativist extremist” groups that confront and harass suspected immigrants have increased nearly 80 percent since President Obama took office, and antigovernment “patriot” groups more than tripled over that period.
Politically, this frustration is epitomized by the Tea Party movement. It may have some legitimate concerns (taxation, the role of government, etc.), but its message is lost in the madness. And now the anemic Republican establishment, covetous of the Tea Party’s passion, is moving to adsorb it, not admonish it. Instead of jettisoning the radical language, rabid bigotry and rising violence, the Republicans justify it. (They don’t want to refute it as much as funnel it.)
There may be a short-term benefit in this strategy, but it’s a long-term loser.
A Quinnipiac University poll released on Wednesday took a look at the Tea Party members and found them to be just as anachronistic to the direction of the country’s demographics as the Republican Party. For instance, they were disproportionately white, evangelical Christian and “less educated ... than the average Joe and Jane Six-Pack.” This at a time when the country is becoming more diverse (some demographers believe that 2010 could be the first year that most children born in the country will be nonwhite), less doctrinally dogmatic, and college enrollment is through the roof. The Tea Party, my friends, is not the future.
You may want “your country back,” but you can’t have it. That sound you hear is the relentless, irrepressible march of change. Welcome to America: The Remix. |
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ColonelColonel
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Fri Apr 2nd 15:45 2010 / #7 |
More NY Times drivel. We the less educated, Southern, white people are racist for calling the socialist Obama what he is. Those of you well educated, culturally superior, Coasties know what is best for us. It seems you get really upset when any of us dummies say anything out loud that actually challenges your self anointed superiority. We far right extremists are the ones that are always out there burning cars, shouting down opponents who dare to disagree with us, and refuse to even listen to the other side in a debate.
Good luck with your hubristic narcissism you true believers of Obama, Pelosi, Reid, and Farney Brank! |
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fatman
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Fri Apr 2nd 16:51 2010 / #8 |
Well Cappy, when you're wrong, you're wrong. For one thing I grew up on the Great Plains, and in the South, and have family spread out over the Mountain West. So no, I'm not some coasty. I actually know what the hell I'm talking about. I grew up with "Good Ol'Boys". Good friends, good people, but I don't want them running the country.
And seriously Captain, about your anti-socialist bent. You've been to Europe many times and know they have varying types of social-democracies. Would you honestly(key word) say that Austria, France, Germany, Norway, and Holland are horrible countries?
I think not. |
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ColonelColonel
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Sat Apr 3rd 19:46 2010 / #9 |
Well, you are right they are not horrible countries especially if you like being part of the herd. The collective looks after you and in return you give up your freedom. Have you seen any "Good Ol'Boys" buring automobiles in Detroit lately? Or is their some chapter of Code Pink in the mountains of North Carolina that I am not aware.
You set up the straw man about not wanting the people of which we speak to run the country but you don't say whether or not you want the Pelosi's, Reid's, Obama's, et al running the country. If you do you didn't learn anything when you were growing up.
It just so happens I am for capitalism, American exceptionalism, and personal freedom. If you don't want that then you are in the right place - Europe. The US is practically the last hold out from socialism or totalitarianism in the world. I am just afraid we are giving away our individual freedom so life will be easier. That is not for me and that IS what I think. |
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ColonelColonel
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Sat Apr 3rd 19:47 2010 / #10 |
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Oh, and greetings from Belize where the weather is stunningly beautiful and the government doesn't much care what you do. |
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fatman
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Sun Apr 4th 10:03 2010 / #11 |
You best get out of Belize. It has government provided health services and insurance. You're surrounded by communists.
If not, enjoy Belize! |
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ColonelColonel
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Mon Apr 5th 03:43 2010 / #12 |
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You are correct but if you think the US Postal Service is a joke you should see this wonderful government provided health service. And yes, I am back in Florida now so no worries about medical care - yet you still have to pay for it. Fortunately, I can afford it because I did the stupid things like working hard, studying, all that not socialistic stuff. |
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fatman
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Mon Apr 5th 09:38 2010 / #13 |
Well some people just aren't willing to be a middleman in an industry that is one big scam, in a business that is based on paperwork and private industry red tape whose soul purpose is to actually deny people health care while collecting their money.
Yep, you are exceptionally American. |
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ColonelColonel
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Mon Apr 5th 23:00 2010 / #14 |
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I don't know if "soul" purpose was intentional or not but I assure you that the company I founded never ever denied anyone care and were in fact more like patient advocates. The credo I established when I founded the company "Treat the patients like they are your family and treat the money as if it were yours". Hard to go wrong if you follow that as a guide. We did follow and it was a great success. Ask any client, ask any employee, ask anybody that actually knows anything about what my company did. I realize that is probably asking too much as I guess that would make you a middle man? |
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fatman
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Mon Apr 5th 23:41 2010 / #15 |
Cappy, if that is 100% true, then I commend you. Good job.
Unfortunately, your company wasn't large enough to insure all Americans. And most, like 90% of the companies can't be good stewards of health insurance, so I'm happy reform passed. It's not ideal legislation by my standards, but about the best you can get with the likes of Lieberman and a Republican party committed to making the rich richer and protecting the wealth of the wealthiest 1%.
And by the way, I like the US Postal Service just fine. And it gets approval ratings from the public just like UPS, Fed Ex, and DHL. Goes wherever, whenever, and does it much cheaper. That's pretty good in my book.
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/08/nothing-sucks-worse-t han-post-office.html
So to summarize Cappy, I am not an ideologue. I don't think "socialism" is the answer to everything, nor do I think capitalism is. A mix of these ideas makes the best result. For example, I think you wouldn't like privatized roads and sidewalks everywhere, and I think having a state industry produce software would be absurd.
Pure capitalism is crap, and so is communism.
And many of these Tea Baggers are dipshits. In fact many of them collect Medicare and Social Security!! Where do they think that comes from? Jesus! |
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ColonelColonel
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Wed Apr 7th 11:15 2010 / #16 |
I would like to share a couple of things with you. It is the democrats that are aligned with big business not the republicans. Just look at the donations made by Goldman Sachs, GE, GM and the other big corporations who virtually all back the democrats because they know that with the cooperation of government they can keep control of their business markets.
It is the republicans who actually support policies that allow poor people like me to get out of poverty and off the demeaning welfare plantation that the democrats use to ensure we have a permanent underclass that can be continually bribed (using money taken from me by force) to vote for them.
I don't know who you talk to but I don't know anyone (that regularly uses the USPS) that supports it and unlike FedEx and UPS that have a monopoly on first class mail, quasi governmental immunity for liability and a whole host of other advantages that they exploit. This is not to mention that there entire business was handed to them by the taxpayers and they have never paid one penny in dividends to us for having billions and billions of dollars in assets given to them.
I think you are also fundamentally wrong about these tea party people and would be surprised to see how many are just ordinary, but thinking, Americans that believe the welfare, tax and spend, state has simply gone too far.
So, you may not be an ideologue but I believe your views have been skewed by the pablum you have been taught in school and that is daily reinforced by the media that has ceased being critical of socialists like Obama and were always hypercritical of Bush and continue to be of folks in the tea party movement.
Please don't set up a straw man about pure anything socialism, capitalism, communism and then knock them down. I think if you will examine history in an unbiased manner you will find that capitalism has delivered more improvements to the human condition than any other system and it is the engine that provides the fruits that allow the socialists to even exist.
OK, that's enough for 5 a.m. in the morning. It is nice to see someone on this board engage in real dialogue though and I appreciate your civil tone and even tempered remarks (however misguided).
Kind Regards |
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fatman
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Wed Apr 7th 18:51 2010 / #17 |
Captain, in regards to the Republican Party, I have been studying US politics deeply for sometime now, well over 10 years and I can tell you that since the 1920s they have been the preferred party of the rich, the elite, and big business. That's not too say the Democrats have always been perfect in standing up for people, but the Dems have by far a better track record. And since progressives broke with Republicans in the early 1900s, i.e. T.R.'s party, they largely have been a part of the Democratic Party. A progressive Republican today is simply an extinct species.
To review, these are just a few of the things liberals, and/or progressives did accomplish:
# The 40-hour work week.
# Weekends.
# Vacations.
# The right of women to vote.
# The right of people of all colors to vote.
# The right of people of all colors to use public schools and facilities.
# Public schools.
# Child-labor laws.
# Work safety laws.
# Consumer protection law.
# Product regulation, i.e. drugs, harmful chemicals.
# Environmental regulation.
# The right to unionize.
# Health-care benefits.
# Social Security.
# Medicare.
# Pell Grants and student loan programs with regulated interest rates.
# National Parks.
# National Forests.
So yes, capitalism has created tons of wealth, but without democratic laws of the people, it doesn't have to do anything for anybody but the people who control those levers of industry. As for an underclass, that EXISTED before any form of social welfare in the States or in any country with capitalism for that matter. Why? Because that's an inherent part of capitalism.
Now, if we had just listened to the big-business elites at the times of these changes, many of these changes would not have happened. Do you think they wanted paid vacations? Do you think they wanted to do away with cheap child labor? Hell No. They were making fortunes.
And so I'm a democratic-socialist. The European countries have brought just as many improvements to their people with their versions of capitalism than the US has with it's own, and in fact did it with a larger population. If you look at any rich country, they are all capitalistic social-democracies. Most newly rich countries actually try to emulate this style, take Costa Rica for example. And also, the British parliamentary system is the preferred form of government. The two party system of the states is far from perfect, and it's not even copied.
And let's be clear, it was quite simple for the US to get rich in the first place. It had a whole bountiful continent before it, with a native population that was killed or sectioned off, and relatively small population to exploit the land. It was easy pickings in the early days.
Captain, if conservatives are actually for the common man, then name one proposal by them that would actually help them economically? Seriously.
The only thing they propose is lower taxes, and then they wonder why there is a huge deficit when they have spent tons of money. Stupid is a stupid does. Meanwhile, the poor and middle class are worst off or equal to their position in 1980, since Republicans and conservatives began to rule the roost. Trickle down economics is complete bunk.
And as for the banks, read this:
In a Message to Democrats, Wall St. Sends Cash to G.O.P.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/08/us/politics/08lobby.html
Are the Republicans getting behind financial regulations? No.
But none of this really matters. As long as the US has elections based on unlimited donations, with obviously big companies and the rich being the biggest donors, the US Congress will continue in general to serve their interests disproportionately to that of the larger population. Period. Unfortunately conservatives like George Will and the conservative Supreme Court members think corporate donations (bribes) are equivalent to free speech. It's just plain silly, but not a joke.
We need publicly financed elections with fixed amounts. It all starts there. Citibank, Exxon, Walmart, whatever, should not have a greater voice than Joe Bob down the street. |
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ColonelColonel
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Thu Apr 8th 17:14 2010 / #18 |
Well, I complimented you too soon. I don't have the time to refute your assertions one by one (I'm watching the Masters online) but your example of voting rights is a glaring mistake. The people that managed to pass the voting rights acts were Republicans and it was the Democrats (Al Gore's father, Byrd in WV) that tried and tried to stop it from happening. Now if you think TR was a hero of mine you are completely wrong as he was a progressive and I think they are even more dangerous than the Democrats who are a much simpler lot than the Progressives who believe that a few elites should be telling everyone what to do. They would likely give preferential voting rights to graduates of Harvard, Yale, Columbia and Penn so that those that know better could guide the rest of us poor slobs.
I don't want to hear about the great socialist society that Europeans built. They were only able to do that because the US was footing the bill to keep the Soviets from taking over the entire continent.
We wouldn't need financial regulation if Barney Frank and the Democrats had not forced FannyMae to give loans to people they knew couldn't pay them back. Every time the administration tried to regulate those lending practices Frank and Chris Dodd prevented it. And the great Democrat running the agency, Franklyn Raines, walked away with roughly 50 million dollars. It could have been worse except Frank's homosexual lover that he had installed in the agency had a falling out with him and left (go ahead and accuse me of homophobia).
Anyway, it would probably be interesting talking to you some time. (Let me know when my carry permit is reciprocated in the Czech Republican and we can schedule the meeting;-) Just kidding)
The one thing that helps the common man, really helps him, IS lower taxes as it lets him keep the fruits of his own labor. |
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fatman
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Fri Apr 9th 05:53 2010 / #19 |
Again, I'm talking about liberals and progressives versus conservatives. Yes, there were CONSERVATIVE Democrats that opposed the measure. And guess which part of the country they were from, the SOUTH. This is the results of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which I think you were referring to:
By party and region
Note: "Southern", as used in this section, refers to members of Congress from the eleven states that made up the Confederate States of America in the American Civil War. "Northern" refers to members from the other 39 states, regardless of the geographic location of those states.
The original House version:
* Southern Democrats: 7-87 (7%-93%)
* Southern Republicans: 0-10 (0%-100%)
* Northern Democrats: 145-9 (94%-6%)
* Northern Republicans: 138-24 (85%-15%)
The Senate version:
* Southern Democrats: 1-20 (5%-95%) (only Senator Ralph Yarborough of Texas voted in favor)
* Southern Republicans: 0-1 (0%-100%) (this was Senator John Tower of Texas)
* Northern Democrats: 45-1 (98%-2%) (only Senator Robert Byrd of West Virginia opposed the measure)
* Northern Republicans: 27-5 (84%-16%) (Senators Barry Goldwater of Arizona, Bourke Hickenlooper of Iowa, Edwin L. Mechem of New Mexico, Milward L. Simpson of Wyoming, and Norris H. Cotton of New Hampshire opposed the measure)
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So yes, it was a combination of Progressive Democrats and Republicans that got it passed. So actually progressives DO WANT EVERYBODY to vote and be treated equally. Sorry Captain, Southern conservatism just does not have a good record, and has largely done nothing good for the country.
And how was the Democratic Party and Lyndon Johnson paid back for this? All those pissed of Southerners flocked to the Republican party. |
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ColonelColonel
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Wed May 26th 16:23 2010 / #20 |
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How are all the socialist paradise's in Europe doing these days - Greece, Spain, et al? |
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LAfrique
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Fri May 28th 01:52 2010 / #21 |
Fatman, you forgot to mention that the debate on health care was indeed settled before Obama ever got to the White House. What do you think Medicare and MediAid are?
And Fatman, how did you know that paulrm was Cappy? Oh, by the way, nice to see you gays all on board! Welcome back! |
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