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justice
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[profile]
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Sun Dec 7th 11:05 2003 / #1 |
One has to play by the rules if you want to get paid. Unfortunately this is the trend that is continuing to drive media stories and smaller foreign governmental policies. It will get worse and by the time people realise, there will be a lot more Guantanamos' Camp X-Ray in the world.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1766037.stm |
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same irritated resident
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[anonymous]
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Sun Dec 7th 14:44 2003 / #2 |
Dear Justice,
You have defined the issue perfectly. But there is a margine to being paid. The margin at the Post could probably be measured by a mathematical formula. There is an income determined by Advertising and Sales. And that is supplemented, apparently by a financial buttress in the form of Texas oil bucks. Perhaps someone will one day clarify who Monroe Luther is, and what Phoenix Capital is. A paper such as the post could probably get by with Advertising income + Paper Sales (although the latter would be very small for an airport/hotel freebee). It is added octane from the Texan that someone must be fearing.
What is the imagined audience?
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mass media
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[anonymous]
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Sun Dec 7th 15:07 2003 / #3 |
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since when did anyone start taking the prague post seriously? |
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same irritated resident
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[anonymous]
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Sun Dec 7th 15:21 2003 / #4 |
It is significant to me that people who come to Prague are led to believe that the articles published there are somehow representative of people who live in the country or are visiting for any length of time. As an institution it is a harmless waystation for Columbia J-school kids to hack a bit. But once in a while, there is something that stands out and needs to be addressed -- if at least so that the writers and editors feel some shame.
I do read the paper, and I'd really like to have something in English that documents the town I live in, and supports the activities of the people who are here. Is that too much to ask?
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Logical
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[anonymous]
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Sun Dec 7th 17:20 2003 / #5 |
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Maybe the Post did not think that a guy who totally changed his position on Iraq as soon as he received funding for a "documentary" from Saddam's friend or who dates underage girls has any credibility. |
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justice
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[profile]
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Sun Dec 7th 20:31 2003 / #6 |
Question: Why is it so easy for everyone to assume that someone who disagrees with the people in power is crackpot?
The Post cannot survive on ads and newspaper sales alone, no way, their costs are too high. Therefore, they do rely on the funding they receive from abroad. People who give money to fund non-profitable media for a decade probably expect something in return. I imagine that what is written about, and how it is written is dictated a great deal by the political leanings of the Posts' provider. |
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rvf
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[anonymous]
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Mon Dec 8th 11:50 2003 / #7 |
As an AVA organizer who helped bring Ritter here, I appreciate IR starting this discussion.
I don\'t think simple politics/censorship is to blame for the Prague Post dropping the ball on this one. They did run the oped piece by him before the conference, after all, and the Post ran a piece recently that irked the US ambassador enough that he even wrote a letter to the editor. A better explanation would be staff cuts and inertia.
Still, as IR says, is it too much to ask that one or more of the following get covered?
-For the first time ever, US citizens living abroad are organizing an formal antiwar group and overseas voting bloc. An active chapter in Prague holds the second international conference.
-At a time of increasing controversy in the US occupation of Iraq, US government critic Scott Ritter speaks in Prague. His visit is presented by a group of DIY Americans in Prague, who organized and found funding.
Spin these any which way, there is a story or two there. Maybe someone at the Post could respond? |
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same irritated resident
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[anonymous]
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Mon Dec 8th 12:23 2003 / #8 |
I appreciate your obasvations, revF. And I wouldn t expect you, as an organizer to attack anyone, like, say Andy Markowitz as editor, or Dinah, as a consciencious individual who as Prague Post News Editor, would be the first person to whom polite letters about this could be written. I have been told that the op ed piece was in a sense a compromise offered by the Markowitz set, presumably fearing that woman who used to be business manager at Prognosis. And it is, as you say, a fair compromise, perhaps.
But look at the Prague Post letters page this week. There is a single letter published. It is a guy named Jon from Brooklyn whose entire bile is focused on the personality of Ritter. But the event that you helped organize, revF, was not just about Ritter. It was a magnificent attempt by Americans abroad to organize abroad. That is not easy. If the Post had published an article about the news item, and not an isolated speaker, people would have a better picture of who lives in this country, and any letter by any Jon from Brooklyn would at least be directed at issues closer to the way they are here.
All the Jons in the world engaged the debate the way it was presented to them, and Dinah and Markowitz enabled that.
To JUSTICE: I take your point about the Post being beholden to an ultimate sponsor who has interest outside the country. Imagine, though, if word got out to the Posts advertisers, that the paper was being published on behalf not of Prague residents, but a Texan, and some guy in Brooklyn...
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Irritated journalist
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[anonymous]
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Mon Dec 8th 12:35 2003 / #9 |
The key thing here is that this was a big story for Prague's English-speaking community. The Post is basically the primary community paper for a town of about 20,000, i.e. the English-speaking community of Prague. The American Voices Abroad worldwide congress was held in Prague, with delegates from Europe and the Middle East, and a well-known figure, Ritter, spoke in a packed-passed-capacity hall. That is a big deal for a community of 20,000 people. From a news-editor's perspective it warranted not just a story but front-page coverage. The Post had a journalistic responsibility to cover it and they fell down on the job.
This can not be blamed on staffing problems. There were two freelancers biting at the bit to do the story for the Post. I talked to both of them and to the managing editor. He said the story would be covered. It wasn't.
Those are the facts, as we say in journalism. I make no judgement about why this happened but will instead leave it up to the reader to decide. There are number of possibilities. The owners, backers, funders of the Post may object. The US Embassy, with which the Post has had agreements in the past about editorial content, may object. The editor himself may simply personally object and may have overstepped the bounds of journalistic objectivity to block the story. But whichever way you cut though, this is 1. a failure of journalism and 2. yet another example of the state of the US media, because the Post, even though it is in Prague, qualifies as such. |
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same irritated resident
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[anonymous]
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Mon Dec 8th 12:46 2003 / #10 |
"I talked to both of them and to the managing editor. He said the story would be covered."
===
Dear most articulate Irritated Journalist:
I take it from your comment that (acting) managing editor Markowitz flaked? Or does the buck of journalistic responsibility stop eleswhere, do you think? |
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wishful thinker
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[anonymous]
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Mon Dec 8th 13:15 2003 / #11 |
Once again ladies and gentlemen, it seems this town is need of a new newsource fresh full and full of life, free.
Of course there's the whole financing issue once again. What to do? Are there any rich .Com guys out there who want to support a print project?
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Monkey Tennis
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[anonymous]
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Mon Dec 8th 14:38 2003 / #12 |
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Personally, I'm more disappointed that they missed out on that rabbit-with-three-penises story. |
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bacil
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[anonymous]
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Mon Dec 8th 15:41 2003 / #13 |
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BTW, the link to the article in the post doesn't work any more |
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Windwalker
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[anonymous]
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Mon Dec 8th 15:43 2003 / #14 |
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JUSTICE, Hasn't that Oil Giant pulled out on the Post anyway? I think the issue should not be thrust solely on the back of the Post, sure they pull punches, report "safe" stories, and avoid annoying their funders, but what media doesn't do that. It's unfortunately the way business is conducted, at least conducted now. Does the Prague Post represent the English Speaking community in Prague, no. Does it write about the issues that concern the community that it is supposed to represent, not really. The answer?? |
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spiklenec
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[anonymous]
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Mon Dec 8th 15:57 2003 / #15 |
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This is all very interesting. The article doesn't work, but I found "ritter" has two references in the Prague Post search engine. A couple more hits on their machine will help out what is in fact a fantastic paper. Dear Windwalker, you asked, "what media doesn't do that." And I can only suggest that most papers who pretend to write for a community generally do write about that community. While I love some of the writing in the Prague Post, I agree with the "irritated resident," that that default paper of record doesn't really write about anything but an community. But I'm not suggesting the community would be better off without it. However I believe that if the Prague Post were suddenly forced, perhaps by Monroe's boredom with the genre, or Lady Publisher's mothering, to rely solely on the newspaper's advertising revenue, it would probably be more effective at writing about the community. But then again, they'd have to be different writers, because the current staff would no longer be able to afford to support inflated babicka-dislocating rents, and they'd have to actually live like the community they write about. That would be tough, wouldn't it? |
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posty
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[anonymous]
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Mon Dec 8th 17:54 2003 / #16 |
Irritated Resident: I wouldn't be so hard on "acting"
Prague Post editor Andrew Markowitz for flubbing the dub by failing to assign a single article. Andy Markowitz did an admirable job inheriting Alex Zajicik's position at the now- defunct Prague Pill. He did his best; he tried to turn that left wing ironic rag into the Prague branch office of Variety. At least now the Post has cool Hollywood film reviews in the culture section. It is a tough job as Theo Schwinke found out. The poor guy Andy must be swamped with work -- can you imagine how tough it would be to have Gwen & Vincent pounding on your door for coverage to boot? |
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[ anonymous ]
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[anonymous]
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Mon Dec 8th 19:06 2003 / #17 |
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New Ritter Link http://www.praguepost.com/P03/2003/Art/1120/opin1.php |
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[ anonymous ]
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[anonymous]
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Mon Dec 8th 19:19 2003 / #18 |
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It was good enough for AP news but not the Post http://www.iranexpert.com/2003/exunarmsinspector22november.h tm |
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Irritated journalist
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[anonymous]
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Tue Dec 9th 09:39 2003 / #19 |
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Posty, I am not saying Andy isn't over worked. I don't work at the Post mainly because it is a constant grind of a job. I fully support the idea of an alternative Prague paper, which the Pill was for awhile and it folded as soon as it started trying to be another Post or Variety, as you put it. But a real alternative would need a committed staff willing to work for next to nothing. I would be willing to do that (yes, even if it were a constant grind) because I am a journalist. I want to work as a journalism and the Post doesn't have much in common with real journalism any more. That is why I don't work on their constant grind. Anyway, you are right that Andy changed the Pill--by censoring out anyone whose politics he didn't like. That isn't journalism. If you are a good journalist you write your news as news and keep your opinions on the opinion page. He should have booted people for being good or bad journalists, not for their personal politics. As for whether or not he flaked over the AVA story, I have no idea what went on. I do know that he had plenty of people willing to do the story, two freelancers that I know of (not me). And Gwen and Vincent were doing their jobs as spokespeople for an organization, a bit unsophisticated at times but it was their correct role under the circumstances. |
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Windwalker
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[anonymous]
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Tue Dec 9th 14:12 2003 / #20 |
How much funding would we need to start a paper? The biggest issue I suppose is making money, perhaps someone would supply the start-up cash, but after a year you need to be earning money and quite a bit of it. Anyone know what the Post burns a month? 200 maybe 300,000, is that an accurate guess. Just the printing and distribution probably cost 150,000 right? The problem is convincing companies to advertise in an english language publication. Xenophobia and skeptisism still lie in the minds of the general populace. Any new paper would probably have to have enough money to stand on its own, provide great content and thus not be affected by the whims and personal agenda of funders.
A good paper will work, and advertisers will pay to be promoted in an English or German paper as the Czech Republic becomes a full fledged member of the EU. Timing, its all about timing and quality. If we were smart...we'd launch it by March. Anyone got $250,000? |
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Daddy Warbucks
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[anonymous]
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Tue Dec 9th 15:13 2003 / #21 |
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Yes |
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[ anonymous ]
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[anonymous]
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Tue Dec 9th 16:17 2003 / #22 |
now thats an idea
http://www.think.cz/issue/50/1.html |
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Windwalker
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[anonymous]
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Tue Dec 9th 17:44 2003 / #23 |
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Nice |
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wiseass
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[anonymous]
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Tue Dec 9th 19:54 2003 / #24 |
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Alexander Zaitchik's article, in Think, that anonymous mentioned, is fantastic. But it is interesting to me that it omits X-INK. Matt Salt edited that. And it worked, for about a year. Black & White. But it does not really help Windwalker with his quest. The subject of how to finance a paper has been well addressed on this webpage. Look up "The Prague Pill" and find a nice debate started I think by "Tribe." We can send each other anonymous posts, such as this one, or that one. But nobody has this year set up a clear guidline to start a new publication. There are the Blogs. Ignore Macmillan and speed to the primary material. These Blogists are the raw material for any possible new publication. Would you hire them? |
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Windwalker
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[anonymous]
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Wed Dec 10th 09:48 2003 / #25 |
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We need a meeting. If people are really concerned and have a genuine interest in creating a quality paper in English aimed at the 30,000 - 60,000 official and unofficial expats then we need a meeting and a plan. Come up with an idea and a business plan, and send it out to entrepeneurs to get the funding. The trick is to find the investor who doesn't want to influence the content. You need to be professional, informative, entertaining and interesting basically the complete opposite of the Post. There are the people here to make it happen, and if they do, the investor will receive his reward after 5 years. Once again the issue is funding. $250,000, is that enough? Paper workers, is that enough? |
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rvf aka Vincent
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[anonymous]
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Wed Dec 10th 09:59 2003 / #26 |
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Motherfuckers, I am laughing so hard my side's like San Andreas. Bust out with your real names now or Spineless Represent. I calling out IR, IJ, WW, Posty. WtF RU? |
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anonymous
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[anonymous]
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Wed Dec 10th 15:01 2003 / #27 |
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Actually, Andy Markowitz was fired from the Pill after he proved himself to be totally inept at doing his job. As the Prague Post is the city's ultimate bastion of hackdom, I'm sure he'll last a lot longer there. |
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flubber
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[anonymous]
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Wed Dec 10th 15:25 2003 / #28 |
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In retrospect, Andrew Markowitz may not have been the hackmaster who flubbed the AVA story. He was probably out with the rest of the Prague Post practicing softball. They are proud of that. See www.kidradical.blogspot.com/ |
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Irritated Journalist
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[anonymous]
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Wed Dec 10th 19:36 2003 / #29 |
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Don't worry, Markowitz won't be at the Post long either, less than a month to hear him tell it. Unfortunately, that is still enough time for him to perpetrate some more travesties of journalism. And, no chance, Vincent! I've been hungry for a chance to mouth off for months now and I usually have to try to be so diplomatic. Give me a break for once! :) :) Besides, curiousity killed the... But on serious stuff, as in an alternative to the Post, I don't know that $300,000 would cover it. I don't know how much it costs but I'll bet it is a lot. We could try Soros. Mainly though, whatever we might try, we would have to give it a real niche, something that fills the existing need, rather than trying to just compete with the Post. There is also the possibility of trying to do a "community paper" for English language communities in say all of Central Europe, or in say Poland, Czech, Hungary and Slovakia. That would have possibly more reach and possibly be more fundable. It would also be more interesting, and incidentally logistically more difficult. Anyone who really seriously wants to deal with this, say so and let's figure out a way to meet. |
farnaby
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[profile]
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Wed Dec 10th 20:50 2003 / #30 |
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You can't blame the Post, really. I often find myself trying to ignore Americans abroad. |
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asianyes
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[profile]
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Thu Dec 11th 04:28 2003 / #31 |
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But let's not forget that the American in Prague is quite a group by itself and probably may not be the mainstream of American popluations. Again, I am generalizing the situation. |
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big asshole
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[anonymous]
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Thu Dec 11th 09:19 2003 / #32 |
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reading these reponses over the last couple of days has been like watching a bloody car wreck - although repellent, i can't turn away. those of you with the most bile are invariably the most naive, and those who sound sensible are probably just humoring the agitators. let's ask soros, indeed. "I want to work as a journalism." the prague post is crap, so let's cover all of eastern europe with spot-on coverage of the party scene. if the funders don't line up out the door for that one, then nothing will work. |
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justice
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[profile]
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Thu Dec 11th 09:34 2003 / #33 |
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Actually there's a point...what will the "paper" be about? Will it be weekly, monthly, bi-weekly? Who is the target audience, just americans or does it appeal to all the english speakers? |
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asianyes
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[profile]
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Thu Dec 11th 10:36 2003 / #34 |
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English speakers mostly American, British, Canadian, Australian, and some other countries. I put this in terms of population size. Please correct me if I am wrong. |
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another big asshole
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[anonymous]
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Thu Dec 11th 11:33 2003 / #35 |
Dig the car wreck analogy.
Generally a good strategy for starting a new publication -- or new anything -- is too keep things under wraps until the timing is right. You guys are off to a great start, announcing that the first issue is coming out in March before you even know each others' names. Look, if any potential competitors wanted to dissuade people from advertising in this new pub, all they'd have to do is show the advertiser this message thread. There's enough of a variety of dumb shit here to scare off all but the most clueless. |
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Still irritated journalist
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[anonymous]
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Thu Dec 11th 11:52 2003 / #36 |
No one here said anything about the party scene. Certainly, such a paper would need a focus or focusses. I am interested in the English-speaking community, not just Americans. That includes foreigners and locals who are connected to the expat community here, of which there are many. We share enough in common to be a loose "community."
The main differences between the Post and this type of paper (in terms of content, not to mention quality) would be: 1. events calendar aimed at residents, not tourists, including all genres of culture, 2. reporting would be aimed at things residents are interested in, yes, some Czech politics, especially in the briefs and analysis, but also basic English-language community news, views and human interest stuff. My vision is hometown newspaper but one that kicks-ass, allows for some sophisticated political and cultural discussion. 3. Alternative press type of political coverage. A journalistic mission that says we print the stories that usually get buried for political reasons, take a fearless journalistic stance in the style of the 18th century "printers" and support muckraking investigative journalism whenever possible.
Let's face it. There is nothing like this in English in Central Europe and there is obviously a market for it. No deals with US embassies. Soros is now putting millions into progressive groups and media and so are a lot of other funders. Make fun of this if you like but if you are serious let's talk business. |
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Same resident, likewise irr...
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[anonymous]
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Thu Dec 11th 12:39 2003 / #37 |
Gee, S.I. Journalist, I so often agree with you, that one would think we're the same irritated individual. Your explanation, about what a paper could be, is exactly what I would like to read. I think that such a culture is evolving, thanks to the "Final Word," Rozhlas, Prague.Tv and "Expats," so much so, that a print edition may just be a luxury. But unlike you, I still find the Prague Post to be close enough to what you are talking about that a little encouragement is what's called for. And that is why for the moment I'm more interested in where the Post is pointing, than in actively encouraging a new publication. With that in mind, I read the url, above, and found that it links to Drew Harris a neo-con cynic with a tendency to advance Safire's agenda and make a straw man out of any anti-war mobilization. It would all be interesting, if it weren't for the fact that Andrew Stevem Harris' spinning about in Markowitz' swivel chair. If this guy ends up permanently editing at the Post in place of Markowitz, and his blog posts are any indication of how he thinks (i.e. not just broad challenges for open dialogue), then I don't think we can expect a decent publication (a paper for the English Speaking readership that lives here) out of the Post any time soon.
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Micah
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[anonymous]
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Thu Dec 11th 16:53 2003 / #38 |
Wow. Pico-thread part two...
Like anything that happens to a cumbersome, inefficient organization, the Post missing the Ritter story can be attributed to two possibilities: conspiracy or stupidity. When in doubt, insiders, always bet on the latter. The Post hasn't made money since its first hack first googled "Heidrich". I know all the numbers involved, and it just isn't possible. Andy Markowitz does write about (and assign in relation to) the Prague that he knows. The Prague that he knows floats forlornly on empty pickle barrels somewhere between Baltimore and a reasonably good video shop.
Prague needs print, it's true. The problem with the bloggers is that they do what they do out of passion, interest and boredom. They are otherwise employed, and most of them at a higher level than any humble liberal rag could ever dream of matching. The issue of print is an issue of pride. And of ego. Most of the bloggers aren't concerned with much more than making a point to their friends - i.e. good conversation. That's why most of them never sent things to the Pill and wouldn't dream of sending something to the Post.
I have a business plan. I started and ran the Pill. No matter what anyone says, the main reason we aren't running now is that JC didn't like the paper anymore. This happened for a number of reasons, but mostly due to a creeping voice of arrogance, cynicism and pettiness that PP/Markowitz-style banality inspires in regular folk the world over. And you can't ever have a "silent" publisher. The problem most people have with people with money is, they have ideas too! Too bad for us all that their money can't make them more articulate. If I were a smart businessman, I would've roped John in for the 3 years we would have needed to make a profit. Instead, I undervalued the paper, my own abilities and the abilities of my friends (namely Alex and Filip) and allowed the whole thing to end up being interpreted as a personal insult by someone who also started out as a friend (John). Silly. The Silver Lining wasn't that hard to see, was it?
Now that the palette has been cleared, and the kids are all sitting at the kiddie table, so to speak, let's pass the gravy - if there's actually any real interest out there in seeing another publication. If someone comes up with $300,000 over a three-year period, Prague will get a modestly profitable paper that tells the truth, but tells it slant. Send your abuse to my-first-name @ pill (dot) cz before the registry finally cuts off the domain. I'm holding my breath on this, really...
-The Other White Editor |
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asianyes
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[profile]
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Thu Dec 11th 18:50 2003 / #39 |
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wow, that is a healthy dose of positive attitude of restarting a Prague based paper. Let's not forget that Prague is such a small community. Sometimes the voice might not reflect all those we get accustomed to back home. But now I call Prague my home. Therefore, I must abide by the local conventions. |
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[ anonymous ]
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[anonymous]
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Thu Dec 11th 23:30 2003 / #40 |
Motherfuckers, I am laughing so hard my side's like San Andreas. Bust out with your real names now or Spineless Represent. I calling out IR, IJ, WW, Posty. WtF RU?
Vincent,
Shameless self-promoter that you are, just admit the above posters are none other than yourself. . . You can take 'em out of the country, but you can't take the country out of 'em: Americans abroad.
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cg
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[anonymous]
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Fri Dec 12th 00:22 2003 / #41 |
Micah,
You said in your last Pill editorial that another paper was waiting in the wings. What happened? And what about all those people in Tribe's thread who said they had investors to back a new publication? What does it say that you are willing to take a second shot, but Caulkins is unwilling?
Btw, has anyone seen a copy of the Instigator?
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get real
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[anonymous]
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Fri Dec 12th 00:53 2003 / #42 |
call it a pico thread if you want but i find prague.tv and expats.cz to be a useful forum for getting uncensored feedback from people who actually give a shit. previously one had to get past the egoes running the publication to see oneself in print, which is why most readers stopped submitting to the post or pill or whatever.
micah, with all due respect to your former achievements, is the next paper going to be the same melodrama over the most banal management issues? if markowitz was no good for the pill, simply replace him. it shows your inexperience/unprofessionalism to talk or point the finger at him. the responsibility of the paper was yours. if you're not willing to accept that, no serious investor should be interested in you. |
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wake up, dude.
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[anonymous]
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Fri Dec 12th 02:27 2003 / #43 |
Thu Dec 11th 23:30Â /Â #40
Dear "anonymous"
Vincent has nothing, or little to do with the thread here. The United States is in violation of international law, and there are a lot of people here who feel strongly about that with out a few grandstander's help. Wake up, dude.
Motherfuckers, I am laughing so hard my side's like San Andreas. Bust out with your real names now or Spineless Represent. I calling out IR, IJ, WW, Posty. WtF RU?
Vincent,
Shameless self-promoter that you are, just admit the above posters are none other than yourself. . . You can take 'em out of the country, but you can't take the country out of 'em: Americans abroad.
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asianyes
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[profile]
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Fri Dec 12th 04:51 2003 / #44 |
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what is going on here? I think we could all have different opinions. But resorting to calling names and being a bigot is not what is needed here. I enjoy Prague.tv and expats.cz too. It gives valuable information to newbie like me. Unfortunately I can only use prague.tv now. Please get that bill published ASAP. |
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Windwalker
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[anonymous]
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Fri Dec 12th 09:16 2003 / #45 |
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So once again we have people lined up and ready to go marching on to create the ultimate paper. I say all of those who are serious journalists and apparently some of you in this thread are, meet with Micah and look at his proposal. If it looks good, and you can agree on a structure an editor in chief etc, put the proposal out there. Try the first Tuesday approach, or look to other sources. Investors do throw money out at all kinds of projects, and as long as the plan is solid and realistic in revenue potential, it might just get the backing. If you care, really care about this issue, then try it. |
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Journalist getting tired of...
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[anonymous]
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Fri Dec 12th 11:03 2003 / #46 |
I think this forum has just about exhausted its usefulness for getting this idea hatched. Micah, I don't have your phone number at the moment, or I'd call you to find out about this rumored "paper in the wings." Can you suggest some way that those of us who are serious about the problem in general can meet to try to figure out what can be done (new paper, deal with Post as is, cry on each other's shoulders, whatever...)?
I would love to see an alternative Prague paper happen and would even be willing to take leap of faith to work for one but I am a dunce in finance and can't do that end of it. I am still actually making a living writing, so it isn't a life or death issue to me.
I would also love to see a coordinated effort to turn the Post around but I would want to know what we are up against. Is it conspiracy or stupidity? I really personally don't know. I might be willing to fight stupidity but I don't think fighting conspiracy would be worth my time and effort on this one. If there is something in the foundations of the Post (financial backers, deals...) that prohibits it from dealing with hot political issues then there probably isn't much we can do. |
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Not a journalist
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[anonymous]
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Fri Dec 12th 13:03 2003 / #47 |
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What we need is a Prague version of the Daily Mirror. Page three girls, SCANDAL!s, unfounded gossip, and some comics. And maybe a couple of sports pages at the back to keep the lads happy. |
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[ anonymous ]
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[anonymous]
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Fri Dec 12th 13:45 2003 / #48 |
Hey journalist getting tired of irritation,
If some of these posts don't address your interest, that's because the topic of starting a new paper was already exhausted in a previous thread posted by Tribe (about 140 posts, if I recall) and titled Prague Pill thoughts. If you can't find it, ask ptv to dredge it up again. |
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[ anonymous ]
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[anonymous]
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Fri Dec 12th 14:01 2003 / #49 |
The tired and tiring discussion can be found here. Enough already.
http://prague.tv/forum/viewpost.php?id=1329
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[ anonymous ]
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[anonymous]
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Fri Dec 12th 14:10 2003 / #50 |
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Screw the page three girls, gossip column, the rave photos, the expat lifestyle endorsement (a la THINK AGAIN), the movie/restaurant/book reviews, the empty filler content to prop up another expat highschool publication, grandstanding egoes clamoring for attention and significance. The silence is far more interesting. When are you people going to realize that nothing changes? The people who are most motivated to "do" things in this city and most visible are usually the least qualified and should stay put. |
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Irritated
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[anonymous]
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Fri Dec 12th 15:04 2003 / #51 |
Again why not continue that discussion on the Pill thread
http://prague.tv/forum/viewpost.php?id=1329
And anonymous, you write "The people who are most motivated to "do" things in this city and most visible are usually the least qualified and should stay put." What an excellent rationalization. So those sitting on their asses (would that be you by any chance?) are secretly the "most qualified"? How convenient. You're a genius but you just, uh, "lack motivation". Right. |
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[ anonymous ]
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[anonymous]
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Fri Dec 12th 15:30 2003 / #52 |
Dear Wake up, dude,
Granted Vincent has nothing to do with the bigger issue here. So what difference do "real names" make here? Only for heroic Reverend Farnsworth who, apparently, is not spineless. It's the ridiculous and highly visible egoes of wannabes like him that keep all sensible expats away from AVA - as of they're leading the groundswell of opposition to the Bush administration. Puh-leeze.
What does any of this have to do with Bush? Nothing. Just remember: you don't have to attend any organization, become an activist fighting the evil Empire, put up with Robert's rules of order, or pass out leaflets, etc. The only real difference is made in the voting booth. |
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[ anonymous ]
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[anonymous]
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Fri Dec 12th 15:52 2003 / #53 |
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Irritated, you must be Truck on that other Pill thread who placed so much importance on people "doing" thing instead of sitting on their asses. Such an admirable American work ethic, nevermind if the end product is shit. Who cares if I'm a deluded idiot or not? The worst I can do is provide amusement for a few seconds (if that). What's more embarrassing is this continual production of sad expat publications reaching now to almost a decade in this city that are somehow justified under the name of not sitting on one's asses. One should not run around Prague while taking a shit. It leaves a mess and people get upset at the smell. If you're going to take a shit, sit STILL, listen to the silence, and do it well. |
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Windwalker
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[anonymous]
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Fri Dec 12th 16:41 2003 / #54 |
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Deep, real deep. How about a meet? |
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Windwalker
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[anonymous]
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Fri Dec 12th 16:55 2003 / #55 |
Do you mind if I stick my nose back into this thing? Seems to me like alot of people want a new publication in this town, also seems to me that there are alot of people who seem to know how to make this thing happen. Micah says he has a plan, why not take a look at it? Why not meet? I know it might blow everyone's cover, shit how about we meet with potato sacks on our heads and only reveal our true identity after a product has been decided on. Why not meet somewhere neutral and safe?
Ideas, how about next wednesday at Tato Kojkej? |
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Alexei
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Fri Dec 12th 19:19 2003 / #56 |
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Do it. Talk is cheap. |
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I.J.
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[anonymous]
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Fri Dec 12th 20:28 2003 / #57 |
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If it is after 6:30, OK. What street? I don't know that place. |
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asianyes
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[profile]
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Fri Dec 12th 21:56 2003 / #58 |
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I am game. I like to go for a drink and discuss what is comping up in the publication too. I am not a journalist but I like to give my input in the columns. Perhaps, someone will accept me in a position to be a contributor as well. I need to find a part-time job to make some dough. |
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[ anonymous ]
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[anonymous]
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Sat Dec 13th 05:00 2003 / #59 |
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OK, here's the plan: all the angel investors wear Groucho Marx masks and all the writers wear red clown noses so we recognize each other next Wednesday at 7pm Tato Kojkej. OR: the writers wear the Groucho Marxes and the angels wear the clown noses - which is probably more appropriate from a financial point of view. |
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justice
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[profile]
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Sat Dec 13th 05:29 2003 / #60 |
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nope, we show who we are at the door. If you are a wanker then you are a wanker! shoe you~ |
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quick
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[anonymous]
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Sat Dec 13th 05:30 2003 / #61 |
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http://prague.tv/venues/detail.php?id=723 |
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asianyes
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[profile]
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Sat Dec 13th 09:20 2003 / #62 |
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I think the angels with a minimum seed fund contribution of 50000cr wear a madonna tshirt, above wear a JenLo tshirt. Writer wear catinthehat shirt. |
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A. Farnam
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[anonymous]
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Sat Dec 13th 11:56 2003 / #63 |
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I'm curious to see if this is serious. I'll come. |
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Windwalker
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[anonymous]
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Sat Dec 13th 13:02 2003 / #64 |
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Ok, so lets make it at the safe time of 7pm so people can make it from work, yoga, christmas shopping, Tai Bo or whatever else consumes their time. Are we in? Hey all you intellligent, angry, disgruntled, irritated, asshole or slightly violated journalists...are you in? |
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asianyes
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[profile]
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Sat Dec 13th 19:25 2003 / #65 |
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I am game. where is this place again? any direction or number? |
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Micah
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[anonymous]
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Sat Dec 13th 21:32 2003 / #66 |
I'm up for a meeting to discuss a new paper. Next Wednesday at 7 (November 17) at Tato Kojkej? It that good for all others interested? I am not, however, at all interested in participating in a round of shit-talking and blame-placing, so please leave the urge at home. Anyone who wants some can head over to Ujezd at 10 pm. I'll be in the basement with brass knuckles and a bolo knife ;)
After we all think about what we can realistically offer the process personally, let's do this:
1. Figure out how to make it profit quickly
2. Figure out what the Pill, Prognosis, Think, etc. did right
3. Get on a timeline
4. Get a long list of investors to contact
5. Get a long list of writers who want to see their names in print
The "other publication in the wings" is currently being run by Tanja Kovac. She's a hell of a salesperson, but she chose to Think Again and Again rather than pay John for the name "Pill" or come up with something new. I offered to help her do it (as) right (as I could), but a 15,000 a month salary was too much to pay, so we went our own ways.
GET REAL: To be fair, I told the Frank, in his Post "Interview", that one of the many things I did wrong was to take on too many roles. I'm a control freak, and that was one of the things that chased off two of the Pill's most important early contributors. BUT, the papers I've heard the most positive feedback on were the ones over which I wasn't afraid to raise my voice a bit and the two pissed-off contributors had (I assume) better things to do than talk shit about me.
Alex was a solid editor, an inquisitive journalist and his voice carried through this "community" in a way impossible to emulate. He usually sounded like a pro and didn't act like an ass - Jeremy Hurewitz got it right when he said Alex' leaving signalled a change in this community, but it was because Alex was a positive influence - not because of some vast sea change in Prague. When he left, I freaked. I thought I needed someone with experience to "replace" his pure instinct. What (John and) I really needed was a Business Manager and more good freelance writers. To sum up: there was no melodrama. (John and) I messed up by hiring Markowitz in the first place, and we got rid of him as soon as it was evident he wouldn't work out. My intention, at that point, was to focus on making the paper profitable and hand the "editorial direction" over to someone who could handle it. My mistake. There, I said it. Again. A million things could have made it easier on me, but I've never once denied that I made poor decisions or pointed out that anyone else could have shared in the responsibility. Not even to people who like to rub that kind of thing in your face (cough - Prague Post - cough). To be absolutely clear - I would love to have been involved in the Pill as "just an editor" (job enough for anyone.) As it turned out, I had to do what I did because there was NO ONE ELSE who dared or cared to do it. Any involvement I have in a new project will definitely reflect that experience, rest assured.
As for "getting past the egoes" of the staff, I am almost embarassed to admit that I can count the number of stories the Pill rejected on my one hand. The egoes (sic) in question may well be your own, abetted by your Moore-ish disdain for capital letters. I can't speak for what Big City Jeff Koyen might have told you when you were drunk at Fraktal, but I can honestly say that me and Alex's policy was to get as wide a range of >>good<< writers as possible into that paper. If you were one of the five or so that I know was rejected, the process you're referring to is called "selection". Don't get mad, get back to work and write a better story. (Or one that the editor thinks is better. For all a would-be writer's intents and purposes, the two are one.)
And there's the rub. We just weren't getting stories. Or resumes for ad salespeople, or anything else. Blame it on the egos, but that only carries half the water. Fact is, and it's been said many times on this very thread, very few people are willing to get off their ass in a sustained manner. It isn't a Prague problem - it isn't even an expat problem. It's just human nature. Why would someone want to bust their ass to, ostensibly, make someone else rich(er)? Why not just pontificate on a bulletin board? Or better still, just do your job, make a good life for your yourself and your family and ignore all the sound and the fury pouring out of the "enlightened few"? Press = pride. An English paper here can only manage to support 10 salaries max. More than 75% of those should be ad people. Me and Alex both were taking less a month than a cub reporter at the Post. We weren't doing it for the money, in other words, and there's no getting around that.
Which brings me to CG: John isn't willing to get into something again because of these reasons: (and if you want clarification or correction, write him an email at john (at) pill (dot) cz- he might answer)
1. He's busy trying to make money in more traditional ways after being convinced that publishing wasn't going to happen. I believe financial consultants call it "tuning your portfolio." I think of it like this: you have a VHS player, a TV, a reel to reel player and a digital camera. You're broke. Which do you take to the pawn shop first?
2. He didn't like the smarmy, abrasive, juvenile voice the Pill was assuming.
3. He became exasperated trying to communicate his wishes to me because I am a control freak and he's not a great talker.
4. He got bored.
I am ready and willing to address all of those issues in detail with a serious potential investor. All others are welcome at Ujezd (above).
The bar is located in the old mill on Kampa. Enter Kampa Park from the side closest Ujezd and walk along Certovka (the little stream) until you hear noise on the left side. Looking forward to it. JLo's buying.
Micah |
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A. Farnam
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[anonymous]
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Sat Dec 13th 22:44 2003 / #67 |
Micah, I'm with you. I'm coming but I will leave if this meeting becomes stupid, juvenile or vindictive or just turns into a complaining party. I don't have time to sit around and bitch, as much fun as that might be. I don't have time for it right now.
I am interested in hearing about the experiences of the Pill in so far as that may be helpful for the future. I was sorry not to be in the job market at the time. We'll see about the future. |
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Windwalker
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[anonymous]
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Sun Dec 14th 11:03 2003 / #68 |
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Wednesday the 17th December at 7pm, bring your proposal Micah. |
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I.J.
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[anonymous]
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Sun Dec 14th 12:19 2003 / #69 |
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Going out of town for the moment. More later. |
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Tribe
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[profile]
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Wed Dec 17th 20:39 2003 / #70 |
Hi Micah and all,
Sorry I couldn’t come to the meeting today.
I’m in the US right now. Probably won’t return for a few months.
As you may have read in the previous discussion I started, I’m interested in the Marketing and Production Cycle side of things of an English-language publication. I would have enjoyed being Business Manager for the Pill, had I known such a job was available at the time.
If you and I could handle design, production, and marketing… and then if Kovac (I worked with her at NEP) manages the ad sales people, I think the paper would soar.
I’ll stay in touch…
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todd
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[profile]
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Thu Dec 18th 10:43 2003 / #71 |
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I am curious how the meeting went last night, Tribe, you could run all that from the States? |
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[ anonymous ]
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[anonymous]
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Thu Dec 18th 12:41 2003 / #72 |
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Tanja Kovac is great - a Marianne Faithful meets Patti Smith meets the Partybreakers |
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big asshole
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[anonymous]
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Thu Dec 18th 13:45 2003 / #73 |
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did all of you enjoy the prague post's COVER article about some motherfucking mushroom-loving pensioner? hard-hitting, no? despite my earlier sarcasm, i hope you all succeed. |
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A. F.
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[anonymous]
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Thu Dec 18th 14:17 2003 / #74 |
The meeting could have had a few more people at it. There were three. We couldn't really do much with that. We had an interesting discussion.
Tribe, it is great to hear you are good on the business side. I am good on the writing/editorial/graphic design side. I am not good on the financial side. I have a decent understanding of marketting writing, i.e. what readers like and what sells a paper, but that is about where my business side brain ends.
The single greatest hold-up to the whole venture is start-up capital. Anyone with any brilliant ideas, please speak up. If not, we may have to table this indefinitely. :) |
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resident
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[anonymous]
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Thu Dec 18th 16:35 2003 / #75 |
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Dear Big A: Actually, many in town might appreciate the mushroom article. It is an article about someone in this country, doing something -- a little quirky, but what-the-hey? I think an article like that is appropriate in any paper that writes locally. The complaint here is not with such articles. But look again at the post web-page (being nice, to add a couple more "hits" for the advertisers), and notice a great article about Iraqui Blogs! Interesting subject, but that's the space that could have been better served to something a little bit more local, don't you think. But the mushroom thing is great. Really. |
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big asshole
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[anonymous]
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Thu Dec 18th 17:10 2003 / #76 |
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resident: you are insane. |
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mycophile
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[anonymous]
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Fri Dec 19th 09:32 2003 / #77 |
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No, he's not. I found the mushroom article fascinating and went out and bought the book and CD as a Christmas present. |
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A.F.
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[anonymous]
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Fri Dec 19th 12:40 2003 / #78 |
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Er... Iraqi Blogs? Unless there is some article I missed, you are refering to my article about Iraqis living in the Czech Republic. What could be more relevant to other foreigners living in the Czech Republic? You might want to actually read articles before criticizing them. |
Jeff
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Fri Dec 19th 12:47 2003 / #79 |
Regarding Iraqi blogs:
This is a misunderstanding. In fact, the article is about Iranians. 'Iranians speak out with weblogs' is the title.
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Windwalker
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[anonymous]
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Fri Dec 19th 15:00 2003 / #80 |
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This is what business consultants are for. You find one, give them your idea/business plan, and then they find you an investor. For a cut of your start-up money they bring the two parties together. This seems like the best way to start. There are obviously enough people that would like to be a part of this, at least there SEEMS like there are. |
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resident
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[anonymous]
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Fri Dec 19th 15:02 2003 / #81 |
http://www.praguepost.com/P03/2003/EW/1218/tt2.php
They are in fact not Iraqis, they are Iranians. My error. But either way, it has nothing to do with the country I am living in. I would enjoy reading an article such as the one, A.F., wrote. Be they Iraqis in the Czech republic, or Iranians here, that would be a fascinating subject. If I were reading about Iranian web blogs, I think I'd like to read --say -- about Bhuttanese web blogs too, if they exist. But I think there are decent international publications to choose from for that. |
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[ anonymous ]
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[anonymous]
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Fri Dec 19th 17:17 2003 / #82 |
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my we're running at 82 postings already! it never ceases to amaze me how much heated discussion is generated on these forums over english language publications in this city. next publication should be called RAGE magazine. |
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todd
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[profile]
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Fri Dec 19th 17:25 2003 / #83 |
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Yes, with chicks on the cover with machine guns |
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[ anonymous ]
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[anonymous]
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Fri Dec 19th 18:59 2003 / #84 |
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but with full, hard nipples sticking through the army fatigues, lara croft meets kangaroo girl. and it will be literary because RAGE cover girl is holding baudelaire's flowers of evil in her left hand - like that famous photo of marilyn monroe on the bed reading joyce's ulysses |
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Scott Stewart
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[anonymous]
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Sat Dec 20th 11:54 2003 / #85 |
"What the hey" is hardly a good enough justification for putting an article on the frontpage of your newspaper, when you only come out once a week.
The PP only puts three articles on the frontpage every week, and this was the best markowitz could come up with? _THIS_ was one of the top three stories of the week==a guy who telepatheically communicates with mushrooms? I don't think so.
You can run a stupid story like this, I suppose, but every bit of news sense should tell you that this is a throwaway and should go in the features section, not as one of your main news stories of the week. No wonder markowitz was fired from the pill, if this is the kind of "news' stories he was bringing to their front page.
And word has it that markowitz was the one who was interviewing all the candidates to replace him. So I think we can all expect that things will not get any better. I will say to be fair, that I think markowitz has put out a few good issues-I was glad for example to see he did not ignore the student budget protests the way he did the ritter speech. (maybe he got the message from us?) But then, after that, we get to read about the mushroom psychic. No, this man has not a clue.
Also, one more thing==the iraqi Weblog story is actually on their _BUSINESS_ page. Huh??? Go figure that one out.
Scott Stewart |
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Deda Mraz
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[anonymous]
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Sun Dec 21st 11:29 2003 / #86 |
Dear Scott Stewart (?)
Indeed, so great is your rage on this, I wonder if you look upon the editor at the Post as somehow that fabled frog frolicking on a fountain, and flubbing its flow --the fountain here would be the source of all correct journalism and representations in English here vubec. And then add insult to injury, the frog is endowed with the magical power to select future frogs -- meaning that either way, be it a frog from Baltimore, or a Frog formerly from the LA Times, with a softball bat, it will still be a frog. Why focus rage there?
Invest in toads!
Deda Mraz.
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Irritated journalist
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[anonymous]
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Tue Dec 23rd 11:47 2003 / #87 |
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Unfortunately, it appears that you can't get last week's stories. Anyway, the real Iraqis (yes, living actually in this actual country, most of them actually in this actual city. :) were on the OPINION page. ?!?!? It wasn't an opinion story. It was, in fact, news because of the new position taken by the INC but it was so contreversial (mainly because the INC didn't say what one might have expected them to say but instead executed a U-turn right in the middle of Occupation Road) that the Post got the willies. This editor seems to have a problem getting his sections straight. |
butthead
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[profile]
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Sat Dec 27th 15:28 2003 / #88 |
But can a paper based on the English language honestly survive here? I stress honestly. I've written fopr papers before," Butthead, go do a review on x restaurant, oy yeah, they're an advertiser, so make it good." With the limited number of potential advertisers, who you would lose after on bad review, it just isn't feasible.
BTW, there are those of us who don't live in Pragur that would like to see the whole country covered. I would bet there are more expats living out of Prague than in the city. But, we learn czech and get our news from the czech papers. |
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butthead
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[profile]
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Sat Dec 27th 16:19 2003 / #89 |
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I was just thinking, in my area, near Jicin and Novy Bydzov, there are least 20 expats, I'm sure most of them would love an English language paper, but it would have to be about the country and be cheap. The post is way to expensive, especialy by subscription. |
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john
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[anonymous]
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Wed Aug 4th 06:30 2004 / #90 |
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[this comment moved to the dump] |
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defensive...
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[anonymous]
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Wed Aug 4th 08:08 2004 / #91 |
hey butthead.
1)to think there are more expats outside praha, is just nuts. ( go to the US embassy sometime, based on registered people, you are talking 4400 in praha, and about 400 outside ) don't know if you are legal, but regardless, it is an empty statement.
2)Get off your high horse. Although i agree the level of czech language skills the average gadja in praha pocesses is shameless, there is life outside the czech media, otherwise you wouldn't be talking here.
3)The potential for advertising revenue here is insane, if a paper folds cause one or two eateries pull their adverts when you write how nasty their toilets are, then you need a better sales team.
Why don't you and your cesky raj crew put together a little zine.
I'm sure us city slickers here would love to know how you town'folk live.
btw, not a big post fan myself, but give them props, they have come a long way, and if you can't afford to buy it, do the environmentally and concious thing and read it online for free. SAVE THE TREES! PTV! |
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[profile]
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Mon Aug 16th 12:23 2004 / #92 |
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[this comment moved to the dump] |
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[ anonymous ]
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[anonymous]
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Wed Aug 18th 13:09 2004 / #93 |
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The Prague Post is a rag it always has been and always will be, I wouldn't wrap dead fish in it. Their sad attempts to capitalize on the vacuum of business reporting left by the demise of the PBJ is truly a pathetic display of their ineptitude. Having said this why would any of you take the Prague Post seriously? |
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great vitamins
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[anonymous]
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Fri Aug 20th 10:08 2004 / #94 |
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[this comment moved to the dump] |
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