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evangelists in Prague?

Posted by: [ anonymous ] - [anonymous]
Date posted: Mon 8th Nov, 2004
Category: Expat life
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It is said that one quarter of the U.S. is "evangelical protestant," and that they are Bush's army now. Are they in Prague?

COMMENTS:
David Wilkerson - [anon] Mon Nov 8th 17:44 2004 / #1
http://www.davidwilkerson.org/news/news_prague.html


Prague, Czech Republic Update
Young People Drawn to Hear David Wilkerson

Over 1200 people attended David Wilkerson's Ministers' Conference on September 11-13, 2003 in Prague, Czech Republic. The group included pastors, spouses, youth leaders and ministry leaders. However, the meetings were invaded by many young people. It seems that anywhere Rev. Wilkerson goes, the young people come, hungry to hear the word of God.

Comments from attendees to the Prague conference

"Pastor Dave brought a message that is uncompromised, one that is straight to the heart; a message that challenges people to be intimate with Christ. The ministers that came were hungry for God and experienced the love of God and the commandment to live according to His word. What impressed me the most from this team is they came seeking nothing for themselves. They came only to give and with that they truly came representing the Lord." — Tommy Lofton, AOG American missionary to Prague

"I am very encouraged and enthusiastic about what God has done in this conference. I really believe that God is going to do great things in this country. I believe that this conference is preparing the way for what God is going to do in Czech Republic." — Conference Attendee

"I am a pastor of an Assemblies of God church in Prague. Many evangelists have come to Prague but very few have been here like David Wilkerson in the way he ministered the WORD of GOD. This has been a fulfillment of our desire and prayers." — Conference Attendee

"At this conference God touched me in four different ways. It is a very simple and straightforward message from God that is very deep in its message of holiness without compromise and to live wholeheartedly for God. David Wilkerson has a message that transcends all denominations whether they are Pentecostal or Baptists or charismatic. There was great interest from the media about Brother Dave, because of The Cross and the Switchblade, as well as the movie. Very rarely do we see something of this magnitude of interest in our country. Something that touched me about this conference is the relationship between David Wilkerson and his son. It is a demonstration of true godly love between a father and a son, and this deeply touched my heart." — Martin Moldan, Vice President of Assemblies of God, Czech Republic

"It was so simple, humble, and honest and that truly touched my heart." — Conference Attendee

"I can testify that I heard a word that I needed to hear. I could tell nobody but God knew and the Spirit knew. I heard what I needed to hear. It was like a Word straight from heaven to me." — Interpreter

"I am that young man you mentioned who is hooked on pornography. I am a new Christian and I am single and I struggle with this. I want to get right with God. Thank you for the warning." — Conference Attendee
[ anonymous ] - [anon] Mon Nov 8th 17:46 2004 / #2
http://www.assemblies.org/agnews.cfm

CENTRAL EUROPE --Steve and Christina Walent

Christian radio in Prague...

Maranatha Assembly of God in Prague, Czech Republic, was planted by Missionary Tom Lofton. Over 2 years ago, the church began to pray that God would give them a radio station. In God's providence, He answered in a greater way than they prayed. He saved the owner of one of the largest radio stations in the Czech Republic! This man now attends Maranatha Assembly of God and offered them free advertisement and a 1-hour weekly program to proclaim the Good News. Please pray with them as they seek God how to best maximize this opportunity. Over 300,000 people listen daily to this station.

The gospel into public schools...

In both the Czech Republic and Slovakia we have Missionary Associates teaching English as a Second Language (ESL). In both countries this has opened doors to share about Jesus in the public schools. Kerry Moos is teaching English at the Bible school in Kolin, Czech Republic, and felt the Lord wanted her to also reach the public school students. She advertised the start of an English Conversational Group in her apartment. Some girls from the neighborhood came, and liked it so much that they talked to their teacher about inviting Kerry to speak in their class. She went the next week and was able to share Christ in class. Using a Coke can, she simply shared with them why Jesus is the "Real Thing." Kerry has also been able to bring in some of the Bible school students, who did pantomime and singing and proclaimed Christ.

In Slovakia, Missionary Associates Steve and Betty Walent have also been able to share in public schools. In one school they wrote the words to "Amazing Grace" on the blackboard in English, explained what they mean, and then sang it to the class. Soon the students joined in the song.
Colin the angry young man - [anon] Mon Nov 8th 21:30 2004 / #3
We should crucify a few of them. They're probably not feeling persecuted enough for their tastes these days.
[ anonymous ] - [anon] Tue Nov 9th 00:37 2004 / #4
I look forward to reading Butthead's comments ...
Tinsel Tue Nov 9th 07:33 2004 / #5
2nd the motion. Colin for president!!
[ anonymous ] - [anon] Tue Nov 9th 08:41 2004 / #6
http://www.expatscafe.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=2110#2110
Jill - [anon] Tue Nov 9th 10:36 2004 / #7
I hate religion, thank god, allah, buddah, whoever that I live in a country where the population isn't warped by some book that no longer has any relevance at all. I hope these scumbags stay out of the czech republic, if you see them they should be harassed like the scum that they are. I have no pity for them.




Czech Republic: Most Atheist Country in Europe?
The Czech Republic may be a great place to live for atheists - even those Czechs who aren't atheist are, by and large, disdainful of organized religion. A recent poll and found that only 33.6% of Czechs belong to a religion and only 11.7% attend services once a month or more. That's the lowest rate for any country in Europe aside from Estonia.
More importantly, perhaps, is the fact that Czechs are quite proud of this. The LA Times quotes Lawrence Cada:

"There's a hostility toward what religion did to them in the past. The Czechs say they're the most atheist country in Europe, and they say it with some pride This is how Western civilization may look in 50 years, because people here believe they live a full life without any religion."
Roman Catholicism is the traditional religion of this region, but people aren't giving it much attention. They see it as a religion of oppression and there aren't enough priests to meet what little demand there is for them - it isn't uncommon or one priest to have to travel to nine parishes to celebrate Mass. According to psychiatrist Libor Growsky:

"I'm a nonbeliever. It's connected to our history. Religion limited the freedom of the people. I don't see a difference between the Communists and the Catholics. They each want people to comply with their ideals My sense of morality comes from literature and my family."
Perhaps the most telling symbol of this is St. Vitus Cathedral, the Gothic centerpiece of Hradcany Castle. The Roman Catholic Church wants to regain control of it. The government, however, views it as a museum for the past and wants to keep it that way. A fitting state of affairs, it seems to me.
Christian - [anon] Tue Nov 9th 15:03 2004 / #8
"...if you see them they should be harassed like the scum that they are. I have no pity for them."

"Jill" is it your opinion that Czech evangelists, like Svata Karasek should be so addressed? Members of the Czech evangelical church that celebrates Sunday mass at Salvator, across from where Hogo Fogo used to be, are not the same sort of people who would be caught dressed up in modified mummie costumes on halloween, nor those who would insist on playing music when asked to stop. But if you want to take your attitude to them and tell them that they are "warped by some book that no longer has any relevance at all."

Or perhaps you might recognize that people of faith are reflected in tonalities that you fail to recognize.
jill:) - [anon] Tue Nov 9th 16:23 2004 / #9
It isn't just christians who annoy me, its basically all religion. But currently the christians have the biggest guns and do the most damage. however I dont condone the muslim idiots who are cutting off peoples heads in the name of Allah either. I just sincerely wish these people would get past the talking snake theory, and stop taking their texts literally, and that's what these evangelical idiots do. Their contradictory ideology makes me sick. If you want to be an evangelical then I think you should take the entire bible literally. Not just pick and choose what you want to quote for your own personal or political gain. If you want to spread intolerence towards gays and lesbians you could always quote leviticus.

Leviticus 18:22
Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

Leviticus 20:13
If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

how about if your yell at your parents

20;9: For every one who curses his father or his mother shall be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother, his blood is upon him.

Hmmmm, this sounds eerily like what the muslim fundies say as well. These evangelicals are scum, and have created far more harm and death on this planet than good. I personally really lenjoy all the love that is being spread from the bible's own words about slavery

Leviticus 25:44-46 "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly

Cool I like slaves, and killing gays, and bad kids. who else do we get to kill?

My point is that these Evangelicals are scum because they pick and choose what they want from the Bible, and then the masses accept it as truth without ever questioning what intent or purposes the minister may have hidden underneath the surface. They want power, and to control people. They don't want people to do things out of their own free will, or perform acts that make them feel "icky". In this regard I do believe these people should be exposed for the pornographic war mongering intolerant whores that they are. As far as the different tonalities of the christian faith, well Id prefer to call them interpretations instead. They've all got the same old book, yet they've got so many different ways of interpreting what it means. hmmmm, could this maybe be because the "interpretations" actually reflect somebodies prior hangups with certain evil things, and they are using the bible to export a methodology which in fact reinforces what they already believe. Well, if this is true, then what they are saying isn't the word of god, it's merely an opinion. So if you want to call yourself a christian, go ahead, I m sure you've got your own version as well. Probably involving some nebulous cloud figure, an idea that you will be reunited with loved ones in an ephemeral atmosphere, and the idea that if you do something bad you should ask to be forgiven before you die. You probably have a lot of good christian beliefs as well, such as taking pity on those less fortunate, and giving money to charity. But when anyone tells me that they know what the true word of god is I feel they are really trying to push some alterior motive. Sorry its not religion, it's a form of control, and its been going on for thousands of years.

Im sorry if I offended you, maybe you should turn the other cheek and forgive me.

as a side note my father is actually a minister. no seriously. I know, I know, it's kind of funny. I guess this is proof that you shouldn't send your kids to sunday school if they want to think for themselves. One gathers way too much ammunition against the church when you're brought up within it. I'll challenge anyone to a bible verse showdown, grrrrrrrr:)
butthead butthead - [profile] Tue Nov 9th 17:01 2004 / #10
perhaps you should check out landover baptist
Christian - [anon] Wed Nov 10th 14:35 2004 / #11
Dear Jill:)
In what demonination of Christianity did your father preach? You rely heavily on old testament extremities of biblical law. As a minister, was your father also inclined to administer the margins of religious philosophy, or was he a mainstream minister?
colin the angry young man - [anon] Wed Nov 10th 15:49 2004 / #12
Not to mention that if Christians took all of Leviticus as seriously as they do the parts about fags, we'd have to shut down our lobster and crab fisheries in New Hampshire (Lev. 11:9).
Jilly:) - [anon] Wed Nov 10th 16:31 2004 / #13
He is actually a Unitarian minister, and currently performing same sex ceremonies. I thought it would be better to be honest than to bear false witness about where i come from, it would have been way cooler if he was some sort baptist fanatic, but it just isn't true. My point is that these people as Colin points out just pick and choose what they want to use from the bible, and this is what annoys me. It is impossible to actually do what the bible says because the bible is full of errancy, therefore I believe it to be more of a philosophy than a religion. I really believe that you are probably a really nice person Christian, and yesterday i was probably a bit nuts and condesending. I apologize for that. But the idea of these evangelicals invading prague makes me cringe, and since I have a close relationship with a lot of czechs I know they'll probably be nice and listen to what they have to say because most of my czech friends don't like confrontation, whereas I ll be foaming at the mouth to tell them they are full of BS. I ve already encountered a few of them, and I treated them respectfully but they really hate to talk about things that contradict what they believe. Which is understandable, but when you're talking about things like the true word of god and knowledge of the afterlife, I take the position that we just don't know what really happens. we don't have enough information on the subject. In regards to the fact that I quote a lot of extreme versus from Leviticus, i would like to remind you that people are still fighting about teaching evolution in Cobb County georgia, i mean this is the 21st century now, please god (pun intended) we need to move on, and realize that this book is simply no longer relevant in modern day life. We've actually learned a lot about science in the last 100 years, and I think that we would all be a lot better off if religion would just vanish completely, at least religions that claim they really know the answer when in reality they don't know anymore than anybody else.
Linda Blair - [anon] Wed Nov 10th 17:37 2004 / #14
Evangelists in Prague or the CR are nothing new. They hit the ground running, bibles in hand the moment the wall came down. Truth in fact, they were here long before that, just operating more covertly. How many of you know that Jehovah's witnesses (they're a little 'different', yes) have been well established in this country for decades?

The other carpet baggers that followed right in were the bait and switch sales scams that got people to sign up for free trips to the country in return for listening to an informative presentation about kitchenware sets. Czechs are polite, but not dumb, and most give short shrift to that stuff.

To enrage yourself over the fact that bible bashers may rope in unsuspecting locals is, I'm sorry to say, condescending to Czechs and that's neither nice nor called for.
ryan - [anon] Wed Nov 10th 20:19 2004 / #15
i saw a funny movie called Saved. i highly suggest watching it. it bags on religious people
butthead butthead - [profile] Thu Nov 11th 07:30 2004 / #16
the mormons had a communitz center set up in the last town I lived in. thez gave free English lessons and a sport center etc... The town heavilz promoted it because it was free. People said, !zeah the kids have to listen to a speel on religion, but so what, it's free."

The school I'm in now has Canadians over every spring for a cultural exchange, except it's a religious brainwashing in disguise. They also use teachers from this religious group at a heavily discounted price. The Christians from the west knoow how to infiltrate. and that is what they're doing. They are not coming out and saying what they are really up to. I once to to order a guest speaker out of my class, because he was a preacher in disguise. My, didn't that set offf the fireworks. I was the only teacher that dared do it.
intolerant theologian - [anon] Thu Nov 11th 08:37 2004 / #17
Youre entitled to your hatred of Christians, Muslims, etc. of course, its a free world: hate those whom thou wilt! And I well understand the condemnation of bible-thumping morons. What about non-religious morons, though. Or is that an impossibility?

In many branches of Christianity, the Old Testament is superseded by the New. Christ said "I am the new law." So, Leviticus, is, to Christianity a sort of historical document. A document of the laws of the Wandering Jews, and the first law-book of Israel. Moses wrote it, a thousand years or more before Christ.
Maybe you should KNOW a little more about a religion before you hate it.

Or stay an "enlightened" moron. We all need somebody to hate.

And do you really think the Czechs are happier because of their lack or spirituality? Is that why they're always so friendly and smiling...?


Have fun.
intolerant theologian - [anon] Thu Nov 11th 08:41 2004 / #18
Youre entitled to your hatred of Christians, Muslims, etc. of course, its a free world: hate those whom thou wilt! And I well understand the condemnation of bible-thumping morons. What about non-religious morons, though. Or is that an impossibility?

In many branches of Christianity, the Old Testament is superseded by the New. Christ said "I am the new law." So, Leviticus, is, to Christianity a sort of historical document. A document of the laws of the Wandering Jews, and the first law-book of Israel. Moses wrote it, a thousand years or more before Christ.
Maybe you should KNOW a little more about a religion before you hate it.

Or stay an "enlightened" moron. We all need somebody to hate.

And do you really think the Czechs are happier because of their lack or spirituality? Is that why they're always so friendly and smiling...?


Have fun.
[ anonymous ] - [anon] Fri Nov 12th 13:22 2004 / #19
evangelicals are still constantly quoting leviticus, so to say that christians see the old testament as a document is a bit ingenuine.
German guy - [anon] Sat Nov 13th 13:46 2004 / #20
"In many branches of Christianity, the Old Testament is superseded by the New. Christ said "I am the new law." So, Leviticus, is, to Christianity a sort of historical document. "

ahhh, these cult members don't even see the irony in what they write. aahaha
Christian - [anon] Sat Nov 13th 15:43 2004 / #21
Dear "German guy," you are right indeed about "cult members." Strangely, the person here who invoked leviticus, "jill:)," is not apparently Christian. He is, however, of a strange faith that seems to see everything in bi-polar Black and White. Poor guy. By black and white, I am referring to the tonal difference between the Evangelists in Prague, and the evangelists who have come to Prague from the United States to sell a religion whose structure is remarkably similar to the blind vision of Jill.
Prague evangelicals are not ones who quote Leviticus as has been here parodied. They are people who believe that one's deeds reflect faith.
Jills back:) - [anon] Tue Nov 16th 11:30 2004 / #22
Hi hi, I had a great weekend, and was happy to see people talking about theology. very cool. so I m sorry to bore you all with this long post, but I just have to defend my position, and I can see how name calling about me personally generally far outweighs facts that I have presented, but this is to be expected by people who can't stand to see any evidence that what they believe may be all made up. I challenge anyone to try and refute the evidence i lay out, but then again I guess christians just have faith (belief without proof). I really don't mind if some of you are christian, it's your choice. the previous poster said that I belong to a faith, I don't have a faith, unless I suppose you could call belief in Science a faith (which is true to a certain extent). My teachers are people like carl sagan, Donna Harraway, and Bill Hicks. so here it is. have fun
ps;I have a lot of free time at work:)
first of all
I don't see it as black and white. I see it as completely grey and open for interpretation by whoever wants to read whatever they want into the text. That's why I don't think calling it the true word of god can possibly be correct. It's a philosophy, in fact there isn't even any evidence that jesus ever existed at all.
here's a brief synapsis of what evidence is missing in relation to the argument that a person named jesus ever even wlaked the earth

lack of History. It's inconceivable that during the alleged time of Jesus no one bothered to write down anything about this most extraordinary person, yet there is nothing. Even the earliest Bible reference to Jesus dates to at least A.D. 64, and the first Gospel, the Gospel of Mark, dates to at least A.D. 70 (and probably to A.D. 170).
Jesus' teachings existed before his supposed birth
Comparative Religion shows that the story of Jesus already existed in numerous religions prior to the alleged time of Jesus. Chrishna, Horus, Orpheus, Bacchus, Osiris, Dionysus, Buddha, Apollo, Hercules, Adonis, Ormuzd, Mithras, Indra, Œdipus, Quetzalcoatle, etc.
The motif of a Crucified Savior was already extant prior to the alleged time of Jesus.
Adopting preexisting pagan holidays
Solar Mythology shows the story of Jesus is just an allegory for the sun passing through the Zodiac and the passage of the seasons of the year. Jesus travels throughout his one year ministry, and the description of his travels exactly match that of the sun traveling through the Zodiac during the year. Here we have the origin of the Jesus story. This common origin explains why all the stories of crucified saviors are essentially the same. Combine that with the fact that the christians actually just adopted old pagan holidays and made them christian. This includes Jesus' birth which originally was the winter solstice.

The new testament wasn't even written during christ's life, it was created some 300 years later. The letters of various apostles which had been circulated and collected for study and re-reading became important to the growing congregations. As the persecution of the Romans under Diocletian (about 300 A.D.) increased, and other false gospels and letters appeared, the need for a list of official genuine books was required. This resulted in the development of the New Testament some 300 years after the birth of jesus.

Those who have pointed out contradictions that can be found in the Bible have often been accused of taking scriptures out of context thereby distorting the facts. To silence those objections let us here examine some of those contradictions in detail.

Nativity Stories of Jesus Christ

Matthew's Version - a summary

The Magi visit the child and offer their gifts to the Jesus
Herod is seeking the newborn King of the Jews to kill him
Joseph is warned in a dream to take his infant son to Egypt (which fulfills an old Testament prophecy)
Herod dies and Joseph takes his family back to Israel and they settle in Nazareth

Luke's Version - a summary

the infant Jesus is visited by the sheppherds from the countrytside
after 8 days the baby Jesus is taken to the temple in Jerusalem for dedication as a first born son
after the dedication the family returns to Nazareth
Comparing the two versions

there is a sense of iminent danger in Matthew's account and there is none in Luke's version
in Luke's version Jesus is taken to Jerusalem (right under Herod's nose) to the temple and is prophesied over by two saints in public concerning his mission in life - in Matthew's version there is no mention of Jesus being taken to Jerusalem and it seems that is the last place he should go with Herod frantically searching high and low for the upstart "King of the Jews"
Jesus is visited by humble folk (the shepherds ) in Luke's version while in Matthew he is greeted as a king by the Magi from the east and given expensive gifts as one would give when given an audience with royalty
in Matthew's version Jesus is taken to Egypt to escape Herod's clutches while in Luke's version Jesus is taken home to Nazareth after his temple dedication and there is no mention of a trip to Egypt
in Matthew's version a large number of innocent children are slaughtered by Herod in an attempt to kill Jesus - in Luke there is no mention of any children being killed
both versions state that Jesus' family was in Bethlehem for the census
in Luke's version Jesus is in a manger when he is visited by the shepherds
in Matthew's version Jesus is in a house when he is visited by the Magi
in Luke's version Jesus is a "babe wrapped in swaddling-clothes"
in Matthew's version Jesus is a "young child"



Possible explanations :

The infant Jesus was presented at the temple before the Magi visited the family in Bethlehem on the way back to Nazareth .
The events of Matthew occured 2 yrs after those recorded in Luke.

Problems with the explanations:

Luke's version states that when Jesus had been presented at the temple in Jerusalem the family headed back to Nazareth - not back to Bethlehem and if they headed back to Nazareth the Magi could not have visited them in Bethlehem. Perhaps some might suggest that the family went back to Nazareth first passing through Bethlehem. However if we look at a map of the Holy Land we see that Nazareth is north of Jerusalem while Bethlehem is south of Jerusalem . If the family were passing through Bethlehem on their way back to Nazareth - they would be travelling in the wrong direction. They would be heading south while Nazareth is to the north.
If the Matthew is recording events that occured 2 years after Luke then Jesus was a toddler not a new born baby. Jesus had to have been born in Bethlehem in order to be the Messiah. That means he was born in Bethlehem and presented at the temple as in Luke's version then was taken to Nazareth and then was taken back again to Bethlehem when he was two years old. This would contradict Luke's account where it says that after the temple presentation the family travelled to Nazareth. If the family was going to stay in Bethlehem two years before going to Nazareth it would have to be mentioned. For the two versions to harmonize it would have to be written thus " after Jesus was presented at the temple the family went back to Bethlehem where they stayed for two more years and after Joseph was warned in a dream they fled to Egypt where they stayed until the death of Herod. Then (and only then) they returned to Nazareth. It is not logical (nor is it accurate) for the writer of Luke to imply this convoluted travel plan all in the phrase "after they had done all that is required in the law the family returned to Nazareth" Surely the apologists are not suggesting that Jesus' family had to stay in Bethlehem for the census for two years before it was completed are they or are they? Living in the Bethlehem was obviously a short-term living arrangement. . Neither is it logical for Jesus to have been taken to Bethlehem for the census twice.

Other problems

Herod's slaughter of the children is not mentioned in the writings of Josephus the Jewish historian. Josephus is very careful to document the many crimes of Herod - why is this heinous crime missing? Perhaps the massacre never really happened?
The prophecy about the weeping of Rachel for her children referred to in Matthew (see Jer. 31:15) does not refer to children being killed but rather about their being taken into exile. The prophecy of Jeremiah is being misapplied in Matthew.
The slaughter of the children is very similar to the nativity story of Krishna. In the Krishna story evil king Kamsa has all the children of the district killed in an attempt to kill the infant Krishna. It is very odd that a story from another culture would be so similar to the event in Matthew. Is it not probable that the story of king Kamsa's massacre was "borrowed" for the Matthew version and included there?

Scriptures relevant to Topic : (Webster's English Bible 1833)

Mat. 2:11 "And when they had come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshiped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented to him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh. 2:12 And being warned by God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way. 2:13 And when they had departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him. .2:14 When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt: .2:19 But when Herod was dead, behold, an angel of the Lord appeareth in a dream to Joseph in Egypt, .2:20 Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead who sought the young child's life.2:21 And he arose, and took the young child and his mother, and came into the land of Israel. .2:22 But when he heard that Archelaus reigned in Judea in the room of his father Herod, he was afraid to go thither: notwithstanding, being warned by God in a dream, he turned aside into the parts of Galilee: 2:23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene. "

Luk.2:11" For to you is born this day, in the city of David, a Savior, who is Christ the Lord. .2:12 And this [shall be] a sign to you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling-clothes, lying in a manger. .2:13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, 2:14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will towards men. 2:20 And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told to them. 2:21 And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, who was so named by the angel before he was conceived in the womb. .2:22 And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present [him] to the Lord; .2:23 (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that is the first born of his mother shall be called holy to the Lord) 2:24 And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtle-doves, or two young pigeons. 2:39 And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth."

Jer. 31:15 "31:15 Thus saith the LORD; A voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation, [and] bitter weeping; Rachel weeping for her children refused to be comforted for her children, because they [were] not. 31:16 Thus saith the LORD; Refrain thy voice from weeping, and thy eyes from tears: for thy work shall be rewarded, saith the LORD; and they shall come again from the land of the enemy.31:17 And there is hope in thy end, saith the LORD, that thy children shall come again to their own border.

David and Saul's First Meeting
Saul was Israel's first king. God was not pleased with Saul's performance as head of state and planned to replace him with David - a man after God's own heart. Ironically Saul was instrumental in bringing his replacement to the royal court. There is confusion as to the circumstances of their first meeting..

1 Samuel 16 version - a summary.
Saul was rejected by God as king of Israel and sent an evil spirit to torment Saul. Saul's servants anxious to help their master suggested that his troubled mind might be soothed by the musical skills of a young shepherd - David. Not only was David a skillful musician but he is "a man of war", " a mighty, valiant man", "prudent in matters" and "comely" (handsome) as well. This glowing recommendation caused Saul to have David brought to the royal court. Saul sent messengers to Jesse (David's father) and asked him to send his son David to the royal court. Saul was very happy to have David in his court. David became Saul's armour-bearer. When David played his music Saul was soothed and the evil spirit left him.

1 Samuel 17 version - a summary.
David was tending the sheep when his father sent him on an errand. Jesse send David to see how his older brothers were doing on the battlefront against the Phillistines. He was given some cheeses to give to his brothers' commanding officer. At the front one of his brothers accused him of sneaking off from the sheep to watch the fighting. David is incensed by the giant Goliath and his insults against Israel. David announces that given the opportunity he would cut the giant down to size. Saul hears of the young man's patriotism and has him brought before him. Saul offers David his own personal armour but it doesn't fit him so David faces Goliath in his civilian clothes. David then kills Goliath with a stone to the forehead and cuts off the giant's head. Israel's army is encouraged by this turn of events and routs the Philistine army. Saul speaks with David after the victory and his son Jonathan becomes like a brother to David.

Comparing the two versions.


in Sam. 16 David is brought to Saul's court because of his musical skill - Saul is troubled in his spirit and needs relief
in Sam. 17 David is brought to Saul's court because he defeated the giant Goliath and inspired Israel to defeat the Philistines
in Sam. 16 David is spoken of as "a man of war" and a "mighty, valiant man" also he is "prudent in matters" - this doesn't sound like "but a youth"
in Sam. 17 David is too young to be allowed to join in the battle against the Phillistines and is only at the battlefront to check on his brothers for his father
in Sam. 17 Saul refers to David as being "but a youth"

Problems with the two chapters..

Sam. 17 cannot have occured after Sam.16 because Saul does not know who David is or who his family is. If Sam. 16 is the time just before Sam. 17 then Saul should know very well who David is - after all he plays his music every time that Saul is troubled and David is also Saul's personal armour-bearer. Saul also knows who Jesse is as he sent a personal request to have him send his son David to the royal court.
Sam. 16 cannot have occured before Sam. 17 because David was not yet "a man of war" "a mighty, valiant man" . He had not yet killed Goliath, he had not fought any battles - he had only been protecting the sheep at this point . How can he be called a mighty warrior at this time?
Sam. 16 cannot be taken out of sequence from after Sam. 17 since in Sam. 17 it is stated that Saul and Jonathan insisted that he stay with them at the royal court and not return to his father's house. Also if Sam. 17 had occured before Sam. 16 why would David be out tending sheep in the wilderness after killing Goliath - Israel's public enemy number one? A war hero would not return to obscurity.
In each of the chapters 16 & 17 it is clear that Saul is meeting David for the first time. In Sam.16 David is recommended to Saul - he does not yet know David. In Sam. 17 Saul inquires of Abner who David is after he kills Goliath. These two chapters conflict. They cannot both be first time meetings.
In Sam. 17 it says " 17:15 But David went and returned from Saul to feed his father's sheep at Beth-lehem." This can only be a clumsy attempt by the compilers of the Bible to stitch together these two disparate chapters. Would David just up and leave Saul's court without asking permission? Would Saul not have insisted that David remain with him as he was supervising the battle against the Philistines? Saul might have suffered one of his episodes of melancholy and he would need David's music to restore his calm - he had to be in control of his faculties when fighting a war. David was also Saul's armour-bearer - it would only be expected that he should remain with his king during a battle.

Scriptures relevant to topic. (Webster's English Bible 1833)

1 Sam.16:13 "Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel arose, and went to Ramah.16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.16:15 And Saul's servants said to him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.16:16 Let our lord now command thy servants, [who are] before thee, to seek a man [who is] a skillful player on a harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he will play with his hand, and thou wilt be well.16:17 And Saul said to his servants, Provide me now a man that can play well, and bring [him] to me.16:18 Then answered one of the servants, and said, Behold, I have seen a son of Jesse the Beth-lehemite, [that is] skillful in playing, and a mighty valiant man, and a man of war, and prudent in matters, and a comely person, and the LORD [is] with him.16:19 Wherefore Saul sent messengers to Jesse, and said, Send to me David thy son, who [is] with the sheep.16:20 And Jesse took an ass [laden] with bread, and a bottle of wine, and a kid, and sent [them] by David his son to Saul.16:21 And David came to Saul, and stood before him: and he loved him greatly; and he became his armor-bearer.16:22 And Saul sent to Jesse, saying, Let David, I pray thee, stand before me; for he hath found favor in my sight.16:23 And it came to pass, when the [evil] spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took a harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him."

1 Sam. 17:1 Now the Philistines collected their armies to battle, and were assembled at Shochoh, which [belongeth] to Judah, and encamped between Shochoh and Azekah, in Ephes-dammim.17:2 And Saul and the men of Israel were assembled and encamped by the valley of Elah, and [they] set the battle in array against the Philistines.17:3 And the Philistines stood on a mountain on the one side, and Israel stood on a mountain on the other side: and [there was] a valley between them.
17:4 And there went out a champion from the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, of Gath, whose hight [was] six cubits and a span.17:5 And [he had] a helmet of brass upon his head, and he [was] armed with a coat of mail; and the weight of the coat [was] five thousand shekels of brass.17:6 And [he had] greaves of brass upon his legs, and a target of brass between his shoulders.17:7 And the staff of his spear [was] like a weaver's beam; and his spear's head [weighed] six hundred shekels of iron: and one bearing a shield went before him.17:8 And he stood and cried to the armies of Israel, and said to them, Why have ye come out to set [your] battle in array? [am] not I a Philistine, and ye servants to Saul? choose you a man for you, and let him come down to me.17:9 If he shall be able to fight with me, and to kill me, then will we be your servants: but if I shall prevail against him, and kill him, then shall ye be our servants, and serve us.17:10 And the Philistine said, I defy the armies of Israel this day; give me a man, that we may fight together.17:11 When Saul and all Israel heard those words of the Philistine, they were dismayed, and greatly afraid.

17:12 Now David [was] the son of that Ephrathite of Beth-lehem-judah, whose name [was] Jesse; and he had eight sons: and the man went among men [for] an old man in the days of Saul.17:13 And the three eldest sons of Jesse went [and] followed Saul to the battle: and the names of his three sons that went to the battle [were] Eliab the first-born, and next to him Abinadab, and the third Shammah.17:14 And David [was] the youngest: and the three eldest followed Saul.
17:15 But David went and returned from Saul to feed his father's sheep at Beth-lehem.17:16 And the Philistine drew near morning and evening, and presented himself forty days.17:17 And Jesse said to David his son, Take now for thy brethren an ephah of this parched [corn], and these ten loaves, and run to the camp to thy brethren;17:18 And carry these ten cheeses to the captain of [their] thousand, and see how thy brethren fare, and take their pledge.17:19 Now Saul, and they, and all the men of Israel, [were] in the valley of Elah, fighting with the Philistines.17:20 And David rose early in the morning, and left the sheep with a keeper, and took, and went, as Jesse had commanded him;and he came to the trench, as the host was going forth to the fight, and shouted for the battle.17:21 For Israel and the Philistines had put the battle in array, army against army.17:22 And David left his furniture in the hand of the keeper of the vessels, and ran into the army, and came and saluted his brethren.17:23 And as he talked with them, behold, there came up the champion, the Philistine of Gath, Goliath by name, from the armies of the Philistines, and spoke according to the same words: and David heard [them].17:24 And all the men of Israel, when they saw the man, fled from him, and were exceedingly afraid.
17:25 And the men of Israel said, Have ye seen this man that hath come up? surely to defy Israel hath he come: and it shall be, [that] the man who shall kill him, the king will enrich him with great riches, and will give him his daughter, and make his father's house free in Israel.

17:26 And David spoke to the men that stood by him, saying, What shall be done to the man that killeth this Philistine, and taketh away the reproach from Israel? for who [is] this uncircumcised Philistine, that he should defy the armies of the living God?17:27 And the people answered him after this manner, saying, So shall it be done to the man that killeth him.17:28 And Eliab his eldest brother heard when he spoke to the men; and Eliab's anger was kindled against David, and he said, Why camest thou down hither? and with whom hast thou left those few sheep in the wilderness? I know thy pride, and the naughtiness of thy heart; for thou art come down that thou mayest see the battle.17:29 And David said, What have I now done? [Is there] not a cause?17:30 And he turned from him towards another, and spoke after the same manner: and the people answered him again after the former manner.17:31 And when the words were heard which David spoke, they rehearsed [them] before Saul: and he sent for him.

17:32 And David said to Saul, Let no man's heart fail because of him; thy servant will go and fight with this Philistine.17:33 And Saul said to David, Thou art not able to go against this Philistine to fight with him: for thou [art but] a youth, and he a man of war from his youth.17:34 And David said to Saul, Thy servant kept his father's sheep, and there came a lion, and a bear, and took a lamb out of the flock:17:35 And I went after him, and smote him, and delivered [it] out of his mouth: and when he arose against me, I caught [him] by his beard, and smote him, and slew him.17:36 Thy servant slew both the lion and the bear: and this uncircumcised Philistine shall be as one of them, seeing he hath defied the armies of the living God.17:37 David said moreover, The LORD that delivered me out of the paw of the lion, and out of the paw of the bear, he will deliver me out of the hand of this Philistine. And Saul said to David, Go, and the LORD be with thee.17:38 And Saul armed David with his armor, and he put a helmet of brass upon his head; also he armed him with a coat of mail.17:39 And David girded his sword upon his armor, and he essayed
to go; for he had not proved [it]. And David said to Saul, I cannot go with these, for I have not proved [them]. And David put them off from him.

17:40 And he took his staff in his hand, and chose him five smooth stones out of the brook, and put them in a shepherd's bag which he had, even in a scrip; and his sling [was] in his hand; and he drew near to the Philistine.17:41 And the Philistine advanced and drew near to David; and the man that bore the shield [went] before him.17:42 And when the Philistine looked about, and saw David, he disdained him: for he was a youth, and ruddy, and of a fair countenance.17:43 And the Philistine said to David, [Am] I a dog, that thou comest to me with staffs? and the Philistine cursed David by his gods.17:44 And the Philistine said to David, Come to me, and I will give thy flesh to the fowls of the air, and to the beasts of the field.17:45 Then said David to the Philistine, Thou comest to me with a sword, and with a spear, and with a shield: but I come to thee in the name of the LORD of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom thou hast defied.17:46 This day will the LORD deliver thee into my hand; and I will smite thee, and take thy head from thee; and I will give the carcasses of the host of the Philistines this day to the fowls of the air, and to the wild beasts of the earth; that all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel.17:47 And all this assembly shall know that the LORD saveth not with sword and spear: for the battle [is] the LORD'S, and he will give you into our hands.17:48 And it came to pass, when the Philistine arose, and came and drew nigh to meet David, that David hasted, and ran towards the army to meet the Philistine.17:49 And David put his hand in his bag, and took thence a stone, and hurled it with his sling, and smote the Philistine in his forehead, that the stone sunk into his forehead; and he fell upon his face to the earth.17:50 So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and smote the Philistine, and slew him; but [there was] no sword in the hand of David.17:51 Therefore David ran and stood upon the Philistine, and took his sword, and drew it out of its sheath, and slew him, and cut off his head with it. And when the Philistines saw their champion was dead, they fled.

17:52 And the men of Israel and of Judah arose, and shouted, and pursued the Philistines to the entrance of the valley, and to the gates of Ekron. And the wounded of the Philistines fell down by the way to Shaaraim, even to Gath, and to Ekron.17:53 And the children of Israel returned from chasing the Philistines, and they plundered their tents.17:54 And David took the head of the Philistine, and brought it to Jerusalem; but he put his armor in his tent.17:55 And when Saul saw David go forth against the Philistine, he said to Abner the captain of the host, Abner, whose son [is] this youth? And Abner said, [As] thy soul liveth, O king, I
cannot tell.17:56 And the king said, Inquire thou whose son the stripling [is].17:57 And as David returned from the slaughter of the Philistine, Abner took him, and brought him before Saul with the head of the Philistine in his hand.17:58 And Saul said to him, Whose son [art] thou, [thou] young man? And David answered, I [am] the son of thy servant Jesse the Beth-lehemite.

18:1 And it came to pass, when he had made an end of speaking to Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul.18:2 And Saul took him that day, and would let him go no more home to his father's house.18:3 Then Jonathan and David made a covenant, because he loved him as his own soul.18:4 And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that [was] upon him, and gave it to David, and his garments, even to his sword, and to his bow, and to his girdle.18:5 And David went out whithersoever Saul sent him, [and] behaved himself wisely: and Saul set him over the men of war, and he was accepted in the sight of all the people, and also in the sight of Saul's servants.

In regard to the last post I do understand that prague evangelicals are different from the American style of evangelical theolgy, however the case I m trying to present is that the bible and christianity are merely a launching pad for exploration into religion. They are not necessarily the true word of god which almost all religions act like they know. Of course the more blind peoples faith is the more I want to point out these things to them.
[ anonymous ] - [anon] Tue Nov 16th 11:48 2004 / #23
protestant Daddy-hating Jill's piece of plagiarism pasted perhaps from Fred Nojd's web page, at members.allstream.net/~fnojd/detail.html.
jill:) - [anon] Tue Nov 16th 13:32 2004 / #24
Just as I thought, all people that disagree with me can do is try and attack me. sure i cut and pasted a ton of the text here, and my dad's not a protestant by the way. however forget about me. Try and refute the message I m trying to put out. Kill the message not the messenger:)

"and on the seventh day god looked down on his beautiful creation, all the beautiful plants, and animals he had created, and he thought to himself, oh shit I fuckin left pot everywhere, fuck now i have to invent republicans, shit I didn t want to do that"
Rev. Bill hicks
Black Monk Black Monk - [profile] Tue Nov 16th 15:16 2004 / #25
hear, hear!

long live bill hicks
Big Dog - [anon] Sun Apr 3rd 03:52 2005 / #26
Hello fellow Christians, and Unbelievers

I have to say ? I do not know, as to where, to start ? I see many very Unhappy souls here. I am guessing, Jill must have been one of those, abused children out there ? Am I right Jill ? Don't kill the messenger ? Some times that is what is needed, as It kills the message. As so many people hate the hard bible thumpers that are only out for $$$. I do not hate them, they will get what they deserve when they die. I think these people need to be strung up now. If the lord does love them, for their good job they are doing, then he will reward them. Just as poor Jesus was ? If the Lord loves them, they will go to heaven. So many times in History people who have read the bible & or the New Testament, and acted wrongly, as their warped viewes as to what it said ? This is not the Word, but the Messenger that has failed, and he is to blame. Please do not hate the message of the Lord, he did not hurt you, he did not make your life lonely, he did not make your life misserable, he did not make you do the things do you can not forgive your self for. He only wished to love you, and help you. But you did not take him into your Heart, do as he has asked you to, and believe. Sure, I am one that has not commited totally to the Lord. But, I have met many that have, and that are the Real thing. They are so blessed, and I wish, I could also. I would like to spread the teachings of the Lord, and live a peaseful life with him loving me. We need to not blame him, as he did not do anything to us, only the messengers that posed to being his messengers did ? Think of Jobe, and the hundreds of years that he was punished by the Lord, only in time to be rewarded, for the rest of his life. So many times, you need to look to your self for the answers, and do not blame your life on others. If you were a true believer, you would have no problems, and or, you would deal with them, and not dwell on them. Life is not a bowl of cherries, and then you die. If you follow the right path maybe you will be rewarded. If not, it is not your time. If you were a true believer, you would know all this, and not sweat the small stuff. Sure I am unhappy, and I wish I had the life of many millions of others. They are so blessed. Many not realising it, and many that do not deserve it. But this is life. Its like a roller coaster ride, and or like a windy road, full of ups, and downs, and many pot holes, sometimes with Rain, and Wind :-) Move on, do not blame our Lord for others mistakes, and their mindless things they have done, blame them. Kill the Bad messenger, not the Message. THis Is the Lords Law. Even if it may not be written, as it should be. An eye for an Eye, is as I have written. I am trying to give my self to the Lord, and for him, to forever love me. If you others talk as you do, he is not going to reconize you, that you were a believer in him, and his teachings. But you are doing the Devils work, and this only realates, and promotes to people thinking, it is Ok to smite the Lord, and his teachings. You have to give, and only then in time, you may be rewarded. Many times just because it makes you feel good, that you have helped another person, not as fortunate as you. I have been rewarded in may ways, as I almost died three years ago, and It was only the Lord that saved me. I know this. I did not believe before. I do now, and I only wish for his forgiveness for my past deeds, and not being a believer. I know now he did know, I was alive, and hurting without him. Dealing with my life all by myself, and lonely. My family died many years ago, and I blamed him for this. He did not take them, it was their time. They were tired, unhappy, and wanted to leave. I am sure if they were asked in heaven, what they thought about all this, they would say, " We wish we would have came sooner, and gave ourself to the Lord " You say ? how do you know the lord saved you ? Well, I did not go to heaven or hell, I am still here, and from my injury, no one ever lives period... HE knows, I am trying to be his desiple, and that I have love for him. I am a hard learner, and have a strong will -personality, and I try to do it all by my self. Its all on my shoulders. I am tired of carrying it all, and am little by little giving in to the Lord. Maybe by the time, I am taken-Die, I will go to heaven, and live a Peaseful Eternity. I only hope, I will be worthy, as I have not been without sin, and I hope this will not keep me from heaven. Sure, I am not perfect, and I do not think anyone is. Not even some of the people that pose to be doing the Lords work, are. We are Human, and humans are weak... I myself, am going to follow the Lord. If you wish to do the devils work, and talk bad about our Lord, this only will hurt you. I only wish you will wake up, and realise the Lord loves you. I look forward to the many nice responces, that I, and the Lord will recieve from all you Lovely people ?
It will give me great pleasure in reading all your posts :-) Please realise, I did not drag,and stick. THis all came from my heart. Have a Nice day :-) Sincerely David
P.S. I have often wondered as to what my reason is for living ? Why am I here, and what am I to do in this world ? What, and why ? I have often thought, I should follow the Lords path, and or teachings. But until now, I did not know as to when, and where. I have seen my future path, and I am telling you about it as I see it. I found this site as while searching for information on the Czech Republic, and Czech woman. I was looking for a country that man, is still a Man, and that has millions of very Beautiful single women. I am an attractive young looking single man of 40.
I am looking to move to the Czech Republic, and find a Beautiful Woman inside, and out, that truely loves the Lord. Marry her, and have a family with her, living in the Czech Republic. My dream is to do this, and start a business. Something that is needed, just to have a desent living. I may teach English to adults, and children. I also think, I will start a small nondenominational Christian Church service, and preach the Lords word, from the New Testament. I am a simple man, as with simple desires, hopes, and dreams. As, I have always thought, I have been choosen for something like this, and I truely feel this is it. As it seems, that the Lords word, is truely needed in the Czech Republic. IF anyone has a interest in the dirrection of my path, and for any good help, or advice as to meeting a good woman from the Czech Republic ? Also, If you are a Pretty Single Christian Woman, or wanting to be a good Christian, and that you are truely interested in getting to know me. You are welcome to email me at, ( usadave60@hotmail.com ) I would appreciate any, and all letters :-) Thanks Again, Sincerely David
[ anonymous ] - [anon] Sun Apr 3rd 11:22 2005 / #27
If you're looking for a christian girl in Prague you'll have a hard time. The czech republic is the most atheist country in all of europe, the netherlands is second, and europeans are generally not as insane about religion as americans are. honestly I ve never met one christian that was anywhere near the psychotic evangellists in the states, in fact, I ve never met a czech who brought up religion, except in a historical sense
[ anonymous ] - [anon] Mon Apr 4th 07:47 2005 / #28
I like the fact that they sneak these people into the public schools to "teach English" have a look at the fraus book on english conversation sometime and see if you don't puke. Is it even leagal. The best part is that these people work so cheap and take jobs away from people who want a salary to live on!
These methods would be illegal in the USA where they come from!
[ anonymous ] - [anon] Fri Jun 17th 09:32 2005 / #29
Czech Republic needs Jesus not religion, and we live by Grace not by Law, maybe many Czechs fail to see today what the reformers in the past saw who even died for their faith, the perfect and sacrificial Love of God in Jesus Christ shown at the cross for every single Chech and the whole world. Everyone one believes in something even the atheists do, but that something is temporar and passing while believing in Jesus is eternal life.
Rapunzel* - [profile] Fri Jun 17th 09:46 2005 / #30
Could you people please clear off with your endless posts with dubious references - we would like to get back to good old fashioned religi.... errrr, Bush Bashing; lower socio-economic units, and Jew baiting.

At least Butthead made a positive contribution, butt he neglected to provide the url where you can get straight and authenticated info on your topic: www.landoverbaptist.com

Thank you.
butthead butthead - [profile] Fri Jun 17th 09:46 2005 / #31
read these links!
http://presidentialprayerteam.com/

The president of the United States of America (that's the country with all the nuclear bombs) hears the voice of God on a regular basis:

"God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East..."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.j...sID=0&l istSrc=Y

We believe that the Tsunami was an act of God, and so does the President: 'Events aren't moved by blind change and chance [but by] the hand of a just and faithful God.' -George W Bush

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html...DAA0894DB404482

We believe that non-Christians will burn in hell forever, and so does the president: "In 1993, just before running for governor of Texas, Mr. Bush told a Jewish reporter that only believers in Jesus go to heaven."

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0316-05.htm

Personally, I find the Christian "news" sites scarier than the dogma sites:

http://www.agapepress.org/ Agape Press

http://www.wnd.com/ World Net Daily

http://www.earnedmedia.org/cws.htm Christian News Wire, possibly the most theocratic of them all (if that's possible)

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/ The Christian Broadcasting Network is Pat Robertson's news outlet, where, in getting this link, I found their provocative, hard-hitting news feature for today is entitled: "Evolution: Science or atheism in disguise?"

http://www.family.org/cforum/ Citizen Link, Dobson's news outlet
Pacman - [profile] Fri Jun 17th 11:47 2005 / #32
I hope the rapture comes soon so all you god loving freaks will go back to your imaginary heaven, and we can have the world back. I pray for the second coming just to rid the planet of you vermin.
Micah Micah - [profile] Fri Jun 17th 13:16 2005 / #33
Christianity is a zionist plot. How's that Rapunzel?

Kill 'em all, let god sort 'em out - that's what they WANT, for Chrissake!

Colin, I bet we could tack up a few of those lunatics on Letna and no one would even notice. Right up there by the metronome...
Donald Brown - [anon] Wed Aug 17th 16:03 2005 / #34
I am student from Botswana and im coming to study there in Prague. So I needed some help because I am a christian and I want to carry on in my christianity. All I needed is guidance on the churches down there so I wont fall into the hands of the enemy. I will be coming to Charles University in Prague to study Medicine. I am expecting to arrive there around 23rd September..

I just read the article about you on the web and I thought you would be the right preson to help me.

I would be so grteful for your help and May the goood Lord bless you for your generocity...

Thank you in advance...
Micah Micah - [profile] Wed Aug 17th 17:08 2005 / #35
Prague is the very groin of the enemy, Donald Brown. Loose women, plentiful beer, dope, guns and fucking in the streets. Come on over, and we'll help you get that monkey off your back.
Pacman - [profile] Thu Aug 18th 04:00 2005 / #36
Oh come on now. Don't be so harsh with him. Prague is one of the most atheist countries in all of europe, ok, we all know that, however there are groups of tourists, and about 1 percent of the local population that actually attends service on sundays. Most churches that you see around prague actually do have services, and you don't even have to pay to get in. however you should brush up on your czech otherwise you won't know what the hell you are saying while singing.
johnny appleseed - [profile] Thu Aug 18th 09:46 2005 / #37
"Prague is one of the most atheists countries in all of Europe"
ROFL
Pacman - [profile] Thu Aug 18th 11:49 2005 / #38
ok, it was 4 am. my fuck up:)
z666 - [anon] Thu Aug 18th 12:12 2005 / #39
according to the latest new york times almanac Czech Republic is one of only two countries in the world to have enough atheists to warrent a percentage of the total religious population.
slovakia: 9% atheist
czech republic: 79% atheist

FUCK YEA THAT'S A FACT FUCKERS!
[ anonymous ] - [anon] Thu Aug 18th 12:13 2005 / #40
#1 in the WORLD
[ anonymous ] - [anon] Thu Aug 18th 12:28 2005 / #41
isn't it cool how my hostname says halliburton? fuck yea that's awesome, big brother peers over my shoulder and i'm still a heathen safe and sound in prague
z66 - [profile] Thu Aug 18th 13:09 2005 / #42
goddamnit i must have been possessed again.. stupid extra 6..
do any of you churchys here have a hook up for a good exorcist?
BeegAl ze skotska - [anon] Thu Sep 1st 17:32 2005 / #43
I trained as a minister, although I didn't get ordained and am yet to go back - if I ever will, which I somehow doubt.

Just wanted to ask if anybody else has heard the street "preachers" at Andel the last couple of Fridays?

Apart from the fact they have practically zero rhetorical ability, it is really embarrassing to think how they are affecting people's minds. Certainly not in a way to make them consider that religion may have its uses.

Oh well.....
skin - [profile] Thu Sep 1st 17:39 2005 / #44
Perhaps you could teach them how to get all rhetorical Beegal, you certainly drive into the nuts of a point instead of dancing about it saying nothing.
BeegAl se skotska - [anon] Thu Sep 1st 17:53 2005 / #45
Hhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmm, dealing with that world again?

Nah, don't think so - I am quite happy being more of a "Jehovah's Bystander" - believe but don't want to get involved.
Morgaine62 - [profile] Sun Sep 3rd 21:22 2006 / #46
Well, all those religious righties (they've even invaded Tuesday night Czess Club) with their "armageddon" and rapture bullshit will get laughed right out of Czech Republic. Czechs were struggling with and developing deep philosophical beliefs about faith and spirituality before protestantism was even born.

Personally, I wish the "Rapture" would hurry up and come and take those pain in the ass, know it all, holier than thou "christians" (though I believe if Jesus of Nazereth showed up at Pat Robertson's prayer meeting, he'd disown you all and convert to Buddhism!) to wherever it is they're supposed to be going, because I am heartily sick of them and sure would appreciate a world without them!
peanutjones - [profile] Tue Sep 5th 00:40 2006 / #47
Just read the summary of the Islam v America conference in Anaheim Ca. its on one of the links Butthead posted. Try it. Nazi propaganda never looked so convincing
mr.jones - [profile] Tue Apr 24th 23:17 2007 / #48
too true: too many christians do too much talking & too little acting (showing them for the hypocrites they are). however, I have met a few who actually do live what Jesus lived, live by the 10 commandments, all of leveticus that wasn't commanded only for the jews (for instance, they got rid of animal sacrifices), & are really really nice people. it gets dangerous to lump them all into one category, since there are those who are a benefit to society, & so many of those that aren't. those who are REALLY are, and those who aren't, are just plain obnoxious while not really doing anyone too much damage (besides themselves, since they are condemning themselves). as for the validity of the Christian scriptures and Jesus, one can take a look at Lee Strobel's "Case for Christ" and "Case for Faith." Take it or leave it, you will either enjoy mocking it or enjoy it because you believe it's true. One can always bring more evidence for or against an idea, but eventually one just has to decide & stick w/ whatever is the best, most reasonable answer.
timted - [profile] Wed May 7th 07:10 2008 / #49
jill you have misused the scripture in a number of ways. kinda like the people you said you had no pity for. old testament law, new testament grace. a believer in Jesus as the messiah will always be persucuted, i expect people to hate me and lie about me, just like they did to Jesus. the bible never contradicts itself though it can be twisted for personal gain. see your above posts for proof. i too was full of anger and hate against the world but God has delivered me and if you haD a unitarian pastor as a dad, no wonder you are so confused. the new testament also speaks against homosexual sin and sexual sin in general, but Gods grace is immeasurable and Jesus is anxious and faithful to forgive any sin except rejecting him. romans 11:29 says the gifts and callings from God are irrevocable. the holy spirit has led me to say this to you, YOU ARE CALLED TO MINISTRY AND YOU HAVE BEEN SINCE YOUR YOUTH. GOD HAS NOT GIVEN UP ON YOU AND HE LOVES YOU. YOU ARE ALEADY FORGIVEN BY JESUS, BUT YOU MUST RECEIVE THIS FORGIVENESS. YOU WILL BECOME A POWERFUL TOOL OF FAITH FOR JESUS ONE DAY OR YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO FILL THAT VOID IN YOUR HEART. YOU KNOW THIS IS TRUTH AND RIGHT NOW I PRAY THAT YOUR DISDAIN FOR TRUE CHRISTIANITY BEGINS TO DIE. JESUS IS THE EXAMPLE NOT ANYONE ELSE. JESUS ALWAYS SHOWED COMPASSION BUT HE NEVER ONCE SAID IT WAS O.K. TO PARTAKE IN ANY SIN. TRUST HIM AND NOT MAN. SCIENCE ALSO PROVES GOD, JESUS, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT. YOU MATTER AND GOD IS NOT FINISHED with you. READ LEE STROBELS BOOK, THE CASE FOR CHRIST. I AM PRAYING FOR YOU!! READ YOUR BIBLE!
Markusuk - [profile] Mon Mar 8th 15:18 2010 / #50
Hi, i would like to commment on Jills post where she says that christians want to kill homosexuals. I am going on Romans 1 17-32,especially 20-32.
Homosexuality in god's eyes is a sin, just as hetrosexual adultry,stealing, lieing and any other sin you can think of or name, I am a believing christian and i believe in creation, i believe in Adam and Eve. Now to some of you that very fact will cause wide debate, but just imagine for one minute that it is true, if it is we are the desendant of adam, so we all have sin within us. All sin is detestable to god what ever it is, as sinners we are ALL deserving of death, But!, that's where god, our loving father and creator saw that we are a lost cause and need a saviour, so he gave us Jesus as an attoning sacrifice, "The Lamb of god", My church in Stourbridge here in the UK preach on this and they also preach that homosexuals are welcome amongst our congregation.
No one has any right to judge another, Let him who be with out sin cast the first stone!Christians condem the sin, not the sinners, just like anyone who has realised they are walking the wrong way and turn around and try to go in the right direction. Hate is a word that belongs to the devil, there is only forgiveness with christ jesus! For he has conquered the devil on the cross! God bless!
elcoyotelocoatx elcoyotelocoatx - [profile] Wed Aug 4th 02:13 2010 / #51
Man, I can't wait to move to Prague. In the US, especially here in Texas, we're constantly having to put up with fundie-christain rudeness. They're the most ignorant, most offensive people I've ever known, while at the same time being the most hyper-sensitive to even the smallest criticism. They're no different from radical muslims, imo.

I hope the Czechs and other Europeans continue to recognize the evangelical movement for the fascist bullshit that it has always been.
Spanky - [profile] Thu Nov 1st 15:44 2012 / #52
Well, damn. Just reading this is a very big eye opener. I will be moving to CZ in the future and yes I'm from the USA, the southern part. Yes I am a Christian, I believe in God/Jesus Christ. I never try and force my beliefs on anyone but saying we should be crucified and so on is just the same as believers saying that non believers should be crucified. The problem I see with religion is the human element not the Creator. We as humans are flawed therefore our logic is too. I agree that the Bible does have a lot of contradictions in it and some things are too hard to understand but as for me I wouldn't be the person I am today without the word of God. I've been all over the world and I've earned respect from everyone I've met even with my Christian beliefs. When I do come to CZ I know that I'd be a minority when it comes to religion but as I stated before I will not try and force my views on anyone but if someone was to ask me about my beliefs I'd be more than happy to share. I've had several people here that are originally from Prague to come and sit down with me and even spend the night at my home. The number one thing that seems to intrigue them was trying to know about God and Jesus.
Spanky - [profile] Thu Nov 1st 15:44 2012 / #53
Well, damn. Just reading this is a very big eye opener. I will be moving to CZ in the future and yes I'm from the USA, the southern part. Yes I am a Christian, I believe in God/Jesus Christ. I never try and force my beliefs on anyone but saying we should be crucified and so on is just the same as believers saying that non believers should be crucified. The problem I see with religion is the human element not the Creator. We as humans are flawed therefore our logic is too. I agree that the Bible does have a lot of contradictions in it and some things are too hard to understand but as for me I wouldn't be the person I am today without the word of God. I've been all over the world and I've earned respect from everyone I've met even with my Christian beliefs. When I do come to CZ I know that I'd be a minority when it comes to religion but as I stated before I will not try and force my views on anyone but if someone was to ask me about my beliefs I'd be more than happy to share. I've had several people here that are originally from Prague to come and sit down with me and even spend the night at my home. The number one thing that seems to intrigue them was trying to know about God and Jesus.
tommm - [profile] Wed Oct 16th 08:14 2013 / #54
As a matter of fact, fun and color are the most important aspects of wedding dresses and bridesmaid dresses with lace sleeves this year. This can be simply understood by the fact that lots of women have chose to wedding gowns to the knee long train lace, and still choose to forego the traditional white color pronovias wedding dresses for other attractive colors such as blue, pink, lavender and teal maternity bridesmaid dresses. This year also sees a wide attraction for metallic fabrics a line wedding dresses with sweetheart neckline and straps, beadings and feathers as opposed to last year's strapless looks lace wedding gown with sleeves.
ttn112 - [profile] Thu Apr 10th 06:09 / #55
i saw a funny movie called Saved. i highly suggest watching it. it bags on religious people Cac chuong trinh du lich nha trang | chuong trinh du lich ha long | chuong trinh du lich da nang gia re nam 2014
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