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What attracts Czech women to American men?

Posted by: Unrepentant Troglodyte - [user profile]
Date posted: Mon 17th Apr, 2006 (edited on Mon 17th Apr, 2006)
Category: Expat life
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I've noticed that [many] Czech women are attracted to American men - in many cases, much more so than to other Western men. What is it about American men that attracts Czech women to American men (especially vis a vis other rich Western men)? What traits do Americans possess that are so attractive to Czech women? I'd love to hear the opinion of some Czech women if they're on here...and feel free to say if you think my thesis is way off base.

COMMENTS:
Peter Ainsworth - [anon] Mon Apr 17th 10:58 2006 / #1
Most of the time their main interest is using the man to practice their English. Few American or British men accept this - they would rather believe that it's because they are so handsome, rich, interesting, etc.

Anybody who doubts this should do the following:

1) Look at the "foreign-language" section of any Czech Internet dating service. Most of the ads will say something along the lines of "I am looking for an English-speaking boyfriend to practice my English". Ditto on Expats.cz and here. I have never yet seen an advert which says "I am looking for an American man because I like American men rather than Czech men."

2) Learn Czech fluently. You will find that 95% of women lose interest as soon as they discover that you aren't going to be speaking English with them. This includes women who can barely speak English - so it isn't a question of "wanting to communicate better". They want to use you. Until you take the effort to learn, you won't find out. I have been here for many years. On dozens of occasions I have met women who walked away the moment it was clear I could speak Czech.

3) If you have a Czech girlfriend get an expat who does speak Czech fluently to talk to them in Czech. 95% of the time they will constantly try to practice their English rather than talk to this person in Czech. If you find the 5% of Czechs who actually like the idea of foreigners integrating into their society then you have found a winner.

4) Use your common sense. Most American/British people are not rich, they have few career prospects and they are not particularly good looking. Why else would Czech women be interested in them?

5) Use your common sense again. If a woman speaks decent English her salary skyrockets and she has the chance to work abroad.

6) Most American/British men meet women either a) because they are teaching them English or b) at expat bars where any Czech women are there to practice their English. If somebody is already paying you to learn English this is obviously want they want from you.

Of course genuine relationships not just based on English for sex and and do develop.

And don't poste back saying "I can say dobry den and the women love it".
[ anonymous ] - [anon] Mon Apr 17th 13:58 2006 / #2
Are you being sarcasitc, or are you really an idiot? Or maye you are trying to scare away the competition?
ConTraDicTion - [anon] Mon Apr 17th 14:04 2006 / #3
Personally, I think it's money and the opportunity to move ahead in life...hate to say it though. I'm not assuming all czech women are out to use western men. I've met some very nice czech girls. I'm just saying, these men are what you call easy victims and are a breeze to hunt down...especially when so many western men in Prague are obsessed with these women.
Peter Ainsworth - [anon] Mon Apr 17th 15:23 2006 / #4
ConTraDicTion: Why would Czech women be attracted to English teachers making 25,000Kc a month? Even a moderately ambitious Czech man would be able to beat that. Most of the Americans here are poorly educated and have few prospects for making money either here or in the US. The days when wearing western clothes attracted Czech women ended about 10 years ago.

143.225.178.6: Do you have anything more intelligent or constructive to say?
Peter Ainsworth - [anon] Mon Apr 17th 15:26 2006 / #5
ConTraDicTion: Why would Czech women be attracted to English teachers making 25,000Kc a month? Even a moderately ambitious Czech man would be able to beat that. Most of the Americans here are poorly educated and have few prospects for making money either here or in the US. The days when wearing western clothes attracted Czech women ended about 10 years ago.

143.225.178.6: Do you have anything more intelligent or constructive to say?
Tsotsi - [profile] Mon Apr 17th 16:13 2006 / #6
[ anonymous ] - [anon] Mon Apr 17th 16:19 2006 / #7
Okay Peter ain't worth a fuck:

1) Yes, they sometimes say they are looking for an English speaking person to practice English - this is the same as the thousands of expats who tell Czech girls they want help learning Czech. It is just an excuse for a date.

2) I guess your Czech isn't very good or you really are an asshole. Are these dozens of girls gold-diggers working in nightclubs? Anyone here who speaks a decent amount of Czech will tell you the more Czech you learn, the more girls are interested. Most Czech girls are not looking for a ticket out - of course they would love to travel, but most would never leave their families to live abroad.

3) 95% - I don't think so - maybe 50%. Although I have been told by some girls that it is not necessary to learn Czech, I never met a Czech who wasn't impressed and happy that I speak Czech. Yes, there are some Czechs who will never accept a foreigner no matter how good they speak Czech, but most really appreciate those who learn Czech and have knowledge about Czech culture and history.

4) First, rich is a relative term. While there are some 'gold-diggers' out there, most Czech girls are not so greedy. They are quite happy with a guy who makes a modest living.

5) Sorry, her salary doesn't skyrocket, though it is true that it can increase, but Czech girls don't need an English speaking boyfriend to do this.

6) If she is paying, then yes, this is what she wants - and if she becomes a girlfriend it is because she wants something more, she is not just trying to save money on English lessons. It is very easy for Czech girls to find friends to practice their English with, they don't need a boyfriend. Sure, some guys are fools and don't understand the concept of being 'just friends' - then again I have slept with many of my Czech 'friends' so it is not such a bad thing. ;)

And sorry, but 25k a month is above average and is plenty for many girls.
Tsotsi - [profile] Mon Apr 17th 16:31 2006 / #8
I am Czech and I have not noticed that the Amercan men would be so much more attractive over the other Western European men. But what I found attractive about the Americans I choose to meet in Prague is they know how to show respect for women - they show fine behaviour and dont expect women to be less smart and prepared to cook for them. To be a native English-speaker is also advantage, and now I dont mean for learning English, but for fluent communication as Czech women often speak better English then many men from non-English speaking western countries.
Peter Ainsworth - [anon] Mon Apr 17th 16:52 2006 / #9
1) Yes, they sometimes say they are looking for an English speaking person to practice English - this is the same as the thousands of expats who tell Czech girls they want help learning Czech. It is just an excuse for a date.

How do you know? Do you date them and then speak Czech with them, or is this just your guess?


2) I guess your Czech isn't very good or you really are an asshole.

No, it's almost perfect.

Are these dozens of girls gold-diggers working in nightclubs? Anyone here who speaks a decent amount of Czech will tell you the more Czech you learn, the more girls are interested. Most Czech girls are not looking for a ticket out - of course they would love to travel, but most would never leave their families to live abroad.

Do you have any direct experience of this or is this all hearsay?

3) 95% - I don't think so - maybe 50%. Although I have been told by some girls that it is not necessary to learn Czech, I never met a Czech who wasn't impressed and happy that I speak Czech. Yes, there are some Czechs who will never accept a foreigner no matter how good they speak Czech, but most really appreciate those who learn Czech and have knowledge about Czech culture and history.

Yes, but I bet that you speak English on all your dates.

4) First, rich is a relative term. While there are some 'gold-diggers' out there, most Czech girls are not so greedy. They are quite happy with a guy who makes a modest living.

Probably true. However the question is, what distinguishes American men from Czechs? If most of them do make a modest living (which I agree with) they can't be interested in their money because they don't have any.

5) Sorry, her salary doesn't skyrocket, though it is true that it can increase, but Czech girls don't need an English speaking boyfriend to do this.

No, but it's by far the easiest and cheapest way for them to improve their English.

6) If she is paying, then yes, this is what she wants - and if she becomes a girlfriend it is because she wants something more, she is not just trying to save money on English lessons. It is very easy for Czech girls to find friends to practice their English with, they don't need a boyfriend. Sure, some guys are fools and don't understand the concept of being 'just friends' - then again I have slept with many of my Czech 'friends' so it is not such a bad thing. ;)

I don't think that it is so easy. They are hardly likely to speak Czech with their Czech friends.

And sorry, but 25k a month is above average and is plenty for many girls.

This is a bit above average (maybe the average for Prague is closer to 21Kc). However, since all Americans have to pay for their own accommodation at market rents, and many Czechs don't, I suspect that the average educated Czech man has a higher disposable income than the average similarly educated American living in Prague. In any case, the difference is not enough to make much money, even assuming that it were a consideration in the first place, which I doubt.

As I said at the beginning, this is something which American men don't want to hear.
[ anonymous ] - [anon] Mon Apr 17th 17:35 2006 / #10
How do you know? Do you date them and then speak Czech with them, or is this just your guess?

- Yes, I have dated many girls I met online - they are usually very clear whether they want to practice English or are looking for something more.


No, it's almost perfect.

- So, I guess they don't like you trying to show off your 'perfect' Czech - being humble goes a long way with Czech girls.


Do you have any direct experience of this or is this all hearsay?

- Yes, been here more then 5 years and dated many girls and talked with many of their friends - especially about dating expats. I admit, the first time I came to Prague back in '96, I played up the 'foreigner coming to take them away to a better life' - but quickly I learned it wasn't what the decent girls were looking for. Most girls I have met say they would try living someplace abroad for a few years to make money, but wouldn't want to go permanently.


Yes, but I bet that you speak English on all your dates.

- Combination of Czech and English usually.


Probably true. However the question is, what distinguishes American men from Czechs? If most of them do make a modest living (which I agree with) they can't be interested in their money because they don't have any.

- The most common answer I get from Czech girls is they like the way Americans treat them.


No, but it's by far the easiest and cheapest way for them to improve their English.

- I don't know many Czech girls who would hang out with a guy if they didn't like him - maybe if he was taking her out to nice places, but definitely not for the English lesson.


I don't think that it is so easy. They are hardly likely to speak Czech with their Czech friends.

- I think you meant English, but they can find plenty of English native speakers to chat with by going to expat bars like you said - it doesn’t mean they would actually date these guys.


This is a bit above average (maybe the average for Prague is closer to 21Kc). However, since all Americans have to pay for their own accommodation at market rents, and many Czechs don't, I suspect that the average educated Czech man has a higher disposable income than the average similarly educated American living in Prague. In any case, the difference is not enough to make much money, even assuming that it were a consideration in the first place, which I doubt.

- Sorry, not ALL Americans here are being ripped off by their landlords - in fact I pay less than many of my Czech friends for similar accommodations. And many of the Czech guys with cheap rent are living in some dump with 1-3 other guys or worse yet, still with their parents. So, they may have more disposable income, but it isn't so attractive for the girls. Also, I know a lot of Czech guys with University degrees working for less than 20k - and if you figure many of the English teachers are not paying the appropriate taxes, their salaries are comparatively higher in the end.

As I said at the beginning, this is something which American men don't want to hear.

- Yes, they much prefer to hear the Czech girls are only after their money and a one way ticket to America.
[ anonymous ] - [anon] Mon Apr 17th 17:53 2006 / #11
Yes, but I bet that you speak English on all your dates.

- Combination of Czech and English usually.

Yeah, like "Dobry den, do you speak English". If and when you get to learn Czech well enough to actually conduct a conversation in it you will have direct experience. Until then, you are relying on hearsay.


Probably true. However the question is, what distinguishes American men from Czechs? If most of them do make a modest living (which I agree with) they can't be interested in their money because they don't have any.

- The most common answer I get from Czech girls is they like the way Americans treat them.

You mean, fuck them and move on?


No, but it's by far the easiest and cheapest way for them to improve their English.

- I don't know many Czech girls who would hang out with a guy if they didn't like him - maybe if he was taking her out to nice places, but definitely not for the English lesson.

No, I'm sure that's true. That's why most of these relationships don't last very long, I expect.

I don't think that it is so easy. They are hardly likely to speak Czech with their Czech friends.

- I think you meant English, but they can find plenty of English native speakers to chat with by going to expat bars like you said - it doesn’t mean they would actually date these guys.

Maybe. However this rather muddies the waters, doesn't it? The acid test is whether they would actually sleep with someone who speaks to them in English, but wouldn't sleep with the same person if he spoke to them in Czech. I have no doubt at all that they will have lots of fun and lots of opportunities to practice their Czech dating men that they aren't really interested in.

This is a bit above average (maybe the average for Prague is closer to 21Kc). However, since all Americans have to pay for their own accommodation at market rents, and many Czechs don't, I suspect that the average educated Czech man has a higher disposable income than the average similarly educated American living in Prague. In any case, the difference is not enough to make much money, even assuming that it were a consideration in the first place, which I doubt.

- Sorry, not ALL Americans here are being ripped off by their landlords - in fact I pay less than many of my Czech friends for similar accommodations. And many of the Czech guys with cheap rent are living in some dump with 1-3 other guys or worse yet, still with their parents. So, they may have more disposable income, but it isn't so attractive for the girls. Also, I know a lot of Czech guys with University degrees working for less than 20k - and if you figure many of the English teachers are not paying the appropriate taxes, their salaries are comparatively higher in the end.

Barely. In any case, if I were a Czech woman this would not make much difference. I am sure that you know Czech people who make even less money than you do: however, the fact remains that the difference in income between an English teacher and a Czech person with the same educational background is not very great.

As I said at the beginning, this is something which American men don't want to hear.

- Yes, they much prefer to hear the Czech girls are only after their money and a one way ticket to America.

Or that they like American men because they "treat them well".

Like I said, when your Czech gets to the point where you can have a full conversation without speaking English, you will be in a position to see for yourself. Conversely, if it already is at this level, you can try just talking Czech - including with Czech women who speak perfect English - and see if you still get the same massive level of interest that you apparently get at the moment.
Anthony Lauder - [anon] Mon Apr 17th 18:37 2006 / #12
I haven't noticed that Czech women particularly want Americans - in fact, many of my female Czech friends find most American men loud and arrogant. However, these are often attracted to somebody who has lived an interesting life - and coming from the US (or another Western country) could contribute to that.

The women who are most interested in American men (or other Western men) tend to be expat women - most of whom won't give a Czech male any chance of all at becoming their lover.
[ anonymous ] - [anon] Mon Apr 17th 23:55 2006 / #13
Yes, but I bet that you speak English on all your dates.

- Combination of Czech and English usually.

Yeah, like "Dobry den, do you speak English". If and when you get to learn Czech well enough to actually conduct a conversation in it you will have direct experience. Until then, you are relying on hearsay.

-- Sorry, wrong again. I speak far from perfect Czech (as do most Czechs!) but I can hold up my end of a conversation. Why would I limit my meetings to speaking just Czech when we both speak Czech and English? Maybe I am not so arrogant as you to try to show off my Czech.

Probably true. However the question is, what distinguishes American men from Czechs? If most of them do make a modest living (which I agree with) they can't be interested in their money because they don't have any.

- The most common answer I get from Czech girls is they like the way Americans treat them.

You mean, fuck them and move on?

-- I'm sure some guys do this, but here I do have to rely on hearsay since I am not a Czech girl.

No, but it's by far the easiest and cheapest way for them to improve their English.

- I don't know many Czech girls who would hang out with a guy if they didn't like him - maybe if he was taking her out to nice places, but definitely not for the English lesson.

No, I'm sure that's true. That's why most of these relationships don't last very long, I expect.

--Just like any relationship. :)

I don't think that it is so easy. They are hardly likely to speak Czech with their Czech friends.

- I think you meant English, but they can find plenty of English native speakers to chat with by going to expat bars like you said - it doesn’t mean they would actually date these guys.

Maybe. However this rather muddies the waters, doesn't it? The acid test is whether they would actually sleep with someone who speaks to them in English, but wouldn't sleep with the same person if he spoke to them in Czech. I have no doubt at all that they will have lots of fun and lots of opportunities to practice their Czech dating men that they aren't really interested in.

--Well, if you are in an expat bar and only speak Czech to the girls, I'm guessing they wouldn't be so interested in you - they kind find someone speaking just Czech in any bar. I can just imagine a girls reaction when she goes to an expat bar to meet native English speakers and you try to force a Czech only conversation. The test is if an American can go to a non-expat bar and speak Czech only to a girl and get her to go home with him.

This is a bit above average (maybe the average for Prague is closer to 21Kc). However, since all Americans have to pay for their own accommodation at market rents, and many Czechs don't, I suspect that the average educated Czech man has a higher disposable income than the average similarly educated American living in Prague. In any case, the difference is not enough to make much money, even assuming that it were a consideration in the first place, which I doubt.

- Sorry, not ALL Americans here are being ripped off by their landlords - in fact I pay less than many of my Czech friends for similar accommodations. And many of the Czech guys with cheap rent are living in some dump with 1-3 other guys or worse yet, still with their parents. So, they may have more disposable income, but it isn't so attractive for the girls. Also, I know a lot of Czech guys with University degrees working for less than 20k - and if you figure many of the English teachers are not paying the appropriate taxes, their salaries are comparatively higher in the end.

Barely. In any case, if I were a Czech woman this would not make much difference. I am sure that you know Czech people who make even less money than you do: however, the fact remains that the difference in income between an English teacher and a Czech person with the same educational background is not very great.

--Maybe, but doesn’t really matter to me or most guys looking for a serious relationship - they wouldn't want a girl after money anyway.

As I said at the beginning, this is something which American men don't want to hear.

- Yes, they much prefer to hear the Czech girls are only after their money and a one way ticket to America.

Or that they like American men because they "treat them well".

Like I said, when your Czech gets to the point where you can have a full conversation without speaking English, you will be in a position to see for yourself. Conversely, if it already is at this level, you can try just talking Czech - including with Czech women who speak perfect English - and see if you still get the same massive level of interest that you apparently get at the moment.

--I'm sure I wouldn't get as much interest, but not because the girls aren't able to practice their English - they would think I was an arrogant jerk trying to impress them with my Czech.
Peter Ainsworth - [anon] Tue Apr 18th 09:07 2006 / #14
Yes, but I bet that you speak English on all your dates.

- Combination of Czech and English usually.

Yeah, like "Dobry den, do you speak English". If and when you get to learn Czech well enough to actually conduct a conversation in it you will have direct experience. Until then, you are relying on hearsay.

-- Sorry, wrong again. I speak far from perfect Czech (as do most Czechs!) but I can hold up my end of a conversation. Why would I limit my meetings to speaking just Czech when we both speak Czech and English?

Most Americans exaggerate their ability to speak Czech. I can only think of two reasons why you would speak English when you are chatting up women: a) because you know this will make them more interested or b) because your Czech isn't good enough to express yourself properly. If you spoke it properly you would not be "showing off" by using it in normal conversation.
No, but it's by far the easiest and cheapest way for them to improve their English.

- I don't know many Czech girls who would hang out with a guy if they didn't like him - maybe if he was taking her out to nice places, but definitely not for the English lesson.

No, I'm sure that's true. That's why most of these relationships don't last very long, I expect.

--Just like any relationship. :)

So you do fuck them and leave them. At least you are honest in this respect.


--Well, if you are in an expat bar and only speak Czech to the girls, I'm guessing they wouldn't be so interested in you - they kind find someone speaking just Czech in any bar. I can just imagine a girls reaction when she goes to an expat bar to meet native English speakers and you try to force a Czech only conversation.

For no other reason than because she came to the bar to practice her English.

The test is if an American can go to a non-expat bar and speak Czech only to a girl and get her to go home with him.

So what you are saying is that if you speak Czech in an expat bar the woman will think you are showing off and not be interested. But if you speak Czech in a Czech bar she might go home with you. So the Czechs who go to expat bars do so largely to practice their English.

--Maybe, but doesn’t really matter to me or most guys looking for a serious relationship - they wouldn't want a girl after money anyway.

True. However it eliminates one of the other reasons why Czech women might be interested in Americans (if, indeed, they actually are).
Like I said, when your Czech gets to the point where you can have a full conversation without speaking English, you will be in a position to see for yourself. Conversely, if it already is at this level, you can try just talking Czech - including with Czech women who speak perfect English - and see if you still get the same massive level of interest that you apparently get at the moment.

--I'm sure I wouldn't get as much interest, but not because the girls aren't able to practice their English - they would think I was an arrogant jerk trying to impress them with my Czech.

Why would they think this??????????????

Either a) they want you to speak English so they can practice their English, and therefore they want someone who doesn't speak Czech or b) they want someone who is integrated into this society, in which case they want someone who does speak Czech.

I am afraid that your comments completely reinforce my argument. You can't get Czech women to be interested in you unless you speak English to them (except possibly in a Czech bar). You are trying to make yourself believe that this is because they would think it was arrogant for an American to speak Czech in the Czech Republic. Has any woman ever told you that she thinks it is arrogant for an American to try to speak Czech? Perhaps she is one of those xenophobes I mentioned in my original posting.

If I met somebody who had lived in my country for five years I would not think it "arrogant" that they had learnt my language and expected to speak it in normal conversation. I have lived in the UK and Australia for many years and have never met anyone who thought it "arrogant" for an immigrant to speak English.
The Grinning Lemur The Grinning Lemur - [profile] Tue Apr 18th 09:28 2006 / #15
Sorry to stagger your catfight (Peter vs. The Anons) but i think it's worth going back to the top of the thread, reading the question, then dropping down to #8 Tsotsi who is being grievously ignored.

Her points are valid..Although becoming less valid the more you bicker aimlessly and hypothetically
Peter Ainsworth - [anon] Tue Apr 18th 10:04 2006 / #16
The trouble is that there is always a difference between what actually does motivate someone to do something and what they say motivates them. No woman is going to say that she is attracted to a man in order to practice her English; nor is she likely to say that she is attracted to somebody because they have money.

In survey after survey women supposedly say that they are attracted to a man with a "sense of humour". But short ugly funny men don't get women, whereas tall dark morons do.

I actually think that #12 has a valid point. I can believe that American men find it easier to get a woman here than in the States. However it doesn't follow from this that Czech women prefer American men to Czech men. I am sure that *some* Czech women do prefer American men - these are the ones who hang about in expat bars, and who are not interested in expats who speak Czech. Whether these women are largely interested in practising their English (which seems likely) or are actually looking for a relationship with someone who treats them well is difficult to tell. If they weren't so insistent on speaking English (as ConTraDicTion testifies) I would be happy to agree that the latter could be a factor.
Kevin Spaceman Wed Apr 19th 14:33 2006 / #17
I disagree that Czech women are attracted to American men.
ConTraDicTion - [anon] Tue Apr 18th 14:09 2006 / #18
Peter, Who are you to tell me to say something more intelligent and constructive when you can't even back it up? Yes i have something more intelligent and constructive to say: you're an asshole and probably just mad that you can't get a girl due to lack of money, looks, language skills, and especially class. First off, i stated clearly that SOME but not ALL of them are out for money and opportunity. Learn to read! Secondly, not all americans are poorly educated here. I know plenty of Americans here with great jobs outside of english teaching. Take your ignorance and american stereotypes somewhere else. Thirdly, The average czech salary is under 15,000KC per month. 25000 is pretty well off here. Why don't you get your facts straight, punk!
Peter Ainsworth - [anon] Tue Apr 18th 14:47 2006 / #19
Dear Contradiction,

If you don't want people to think that American men are aggressive and abusive then perhaps you could stop being aggressive and abusive yourself. I have not been rude to you in any way and would appreciate it if you could try to be more civil.

Your figure of "under 15,000Kc a month" for an average salary in the Czech Republic is about ten years out of date. Have a look at:

http://fredfred.net/skriker/index.php/czech-republic-tilts-t o-left/

According to this the average salary in 2005 was just under 21,000Kc, so presumably by now it is 22,000Kc.

I didn't say that all Americans here are badly educated, merely that a Czech person with a comparable background would not be much worse off financially than most Czech men. There are a few people who still get expat salaries, but this is only a tiny handful. This is why I doubt that Czech women are attracted to American men for their money.

This leaves two possibilities: either a) they like your pleasant personality or b) they want to practice their English.

You have already told me that Czech women think you are a "jerk" when you try to speak Czech to them (or else you think that you are being a jerk when you do this, for reasons which I don't understand). Since we don't know how well you actually do speak Czech, we can only assume that this is because they want to speak to you in English. If you can think of some other reason why they are so anxious to talk English please let us know.

I am more than happy to accept the possibility that your personality when you are dealing with women is more attractive than when you are writing on this forum. Or perhaps Czech women like abuse. Without meeting you (which I certainly don't want to do) it is difficult to judge.

I actually suspect that the truth is that most Czech women do not prefer American men to Czech men - this is perhaps the reason why only a handful of them hang out in expat bars.
[ anonymous ] - [anon] Tue Apr 18th 15:45 2006 / #20
Look,

Isn't their something sexy about attractive foreign girls wherever you people come from? The cute accents, the exotic looks. Generally having an alternate perspective on a place where you are drowning in your own boring culture?

Focusing on language and finance is closeminded. As a matter of fact two western guys trying to look at things from a Czech girl's perspective smacks of something ludicrous...even a little sexually deviant: Perhaps you enjoy wearing the Kroj and getting whipped with braided willow branches?
Jiktka - [anon] Tue Apr 18th 16:00 2006 / #21
I am Czech girl. I would not out with a man like ConTraDicTion even if he did speak English. He is someone who thinks he is something special and is very rude.

I had an American guy as boyfriend once. Now I have the Czech man and we are happy. Czech men understand Czech women and they are not so arrogant.
[ anonymous ] - [anon] Tue Apr 18th 16:26 2006 / #22
Hah! That's great: "Even if he did speak English"
[ anonymous ] - [anon] Tue Apr 18th 18:20 2006 / #23
'Czech men understand Czech women' - yes, they aren't surprised when they cheat on them. ;)
Anthony Lauder - [anon] Tue Apr 18th 18:57 2006 / #24
Over the past few years I have begun to believe that Czech women get on better with English men rather than American men. Many women have told me that Czechs and English folks are pretty much on the same wavelength - whereas Americans tend not to be. Maybe it has something to do with Czechs appreciating Monty Python :-)
kristina - [profile] Tue Apr 18th 19:08 2006 / #25
dear ¨mr troglodÿte¨.
The question as you put it seems somehow old¨. I donot think that Czech women in this country that is part of europe, really look for any particular nationality. What is the p?¶int?
[ anonymous ] - [anon] Tue Apr 18th 19:25 2006 / #26
Poor Peter, you obviously have some problems. Learned Czech but still can't get a Czech girl?When you make assumptions about someone then attack them based on these assumptions, you look like an idiot. You are obviously not worth arguing with.

BTW - According to Czech Televize 2 months ago, the average salary is 16K nation wide and 19K in Prague.

While salary differences for expats and locals have narrowed in the last few years, expats still make more.
Peter Ainsworth - [anon] Tue Apr 18th 20:21 2006 / #27
If I am not worth arguing with, why do you continue arguing with me? You won't address any of the points which I raise and you just hurl insults like a child.

Since I didn't watch the television programme you mentioned I can't comment on it. However Radio Prague quotes 19,000Kc, also for 2005, as does Idnes.cz, so it is not inconceivable that you may have misunderstood the original broadcast.

http://www.radio.cz/en/news/73264
http://ekonomika.idnes.cz/komentanalyt.asp?r=komentanalyt&am p;amp;c=A051130_091239_komentanalyt_ven
Unrepentant Troglodyte - [profile] Tue Apr 18th 20:39 2006 / #28
Kristina,

Do you really think that anyone - in any country (Czech Republic included) - doesn't consider someone's nationality an important factor in finding a boyfriend/girlfriend? You think that a Czech woman thinks of an Italian man the same way she thinks of a Czech man, the same way she thinks of a British guy? That nationality is just a minor part of his personality? I'm not saying you're wrong, but would like to hear you explain more.

My experience, as an American currently living in the US (very different from your perspective, I know), is that being a foreign person makes you extremely different - almost like being disabled - you are viewed as being that strange. I've spent a lot of time in CZ and have dated a Czech woman, so I know the mindset is quite different in CZ. However, the concept of being a foreigner, to me, seems universal.

In your experience, is it just as "normal" for a Czech woman to date a foreign man as it is for her to date a Czech man?

S pozdravem,
Pan Troglodyte
kristina - [profile] Tue Apr 18th 21:26 2006 / #29
In my experience, Mr Troglodyte, this situation such as you bring up, is really typical of you, and all your pseudonyms. Kind of a funny way to be, eh? Write posts, and post retorts, and re-post. Just as you put it:
"Kind of like being disabled."
Unrepentant Troglodyte - [profile] Tue Apr 18th 21:39 2006 / #30
Kristina, what exactly did I do to deserve this? I want your opinion, I'm not trying to start an argument. Would you like to answer my question, because I am interested in what you might have to say.
cks - [profile] Tue Apr 18th 22:50 2006 / #31
My Czech friends have told me that they just prefer men who wear deoderant and they find that a plus in most American men. Me too!!!!
Anthony Lauder - [anon] Wed Apr 19th 08:35 2006 / #32
My Czech friends have told me that they don't like men wearing "perfume" and they find that a negative in most American men. Me too!!!!
Kevin Spaceman Wed Apr 19th 10:59 2006 / #33
.
cks - [profile] Wed Apr 19th 09:47 2006 / #34
Perfume is not very sexy for a man to wear, but deoderant is an asset. The stench of BO is going to become even more disgusting as the weather gets hotter. I admire men who can find the time to invest in deoderant. It is not too much to ask for. American men seem to have no problem with this.

Cheer up, maybe Czech women are using American men for sex. The average competive behavior of the American culture has luckily made it to the bedroom. Any smart man knows that unselfish sexual behavior is one of the best ways to compete, and they smell nicer.
baby K - [profile] Wed Apr 19th 14:10 2006 / #35
Anthony i agree with post #24.

I get on much better with Czech men in terms of sense of humour which tends to be dark and sarcastic. I think a little of the British reserve (stag parties not withstanding) also helps.

My chap wears aftershave. I wonder if he's a czechosexual?
[ anonymous ] - [anon] Wed Apr 19th 14:12 2006 / #36
Unrepentant Troglodyte, Kristina is just here to learn English - please don't ask here for any opinions. As we all know, Czech girls don't really think much - they are better at fucking.

Anthony, I doubt you have any friends, at least none with a sense of smell.
Corbin Dallas - [profile] Thu Apr 20th 02:54 2006 / #37
My, that's a pretty mature comment there, #36.

Anyway, not to be nitpicky and technical or anything, but a man wearing perfume is certainly not sexy. That's because women wear perfume, men wear cologne. :-)
cks - [profile] Thu Apr 20th 20:21 2006 / #38
I wish that more Czech women were frequenting this site to answer the question. It is quite interesting. Baby K is right about the Czech sense of humor, it can be quite charming at times. She has obviously had better luck with Czech men than the rest of us. Black book?!!

Anthony-some of us will take a nice, groomed deoderant wearing Czech lover, but we don't always like sharing them with their girlfriends/wives/mothers. So yeah, us expat women are probably more interested in the British and American men.

Peter- I do agree that many Czech women have been burned badly by the American men who fuck them and leave them. I personally know a Czech girl who experienced this situation and is heart broken. I wonder how many American men actually have the intentions of marrying or having a long term relationship with the Czech girls? And I am sure that they are attracted to the aspect of a man who does not live with his parents. I have yet to meet a Czech man who lives alone or with flatmates. Don't know about the using men for English situation, you would know better.

Kevin-why do you think that Czech women do not like American men? I think that you are hilarious ,what are your experiences?

I have, however, asked my female students what they look for in a partner. Laughter and a strong physical relationship was not on the top of the list. They were mainly interested in a stable man who wanted children. And the older women did not think that monagomy was important. They rated it a 3 from a scale of 1 to 5 and one openly told me that cheating is normal and seemed to accept it. So, I still have no idea what they are after and I discuss this with them at times. So maybe the ones who like sex also just want to fuck you and leave you as well. American men do know their way around the bedroom in most cases.
[ anonymous ] - [anon] Fri Apr 21st 00:01 2006 / #39
That's interesting, because I have ben meeting quite a few girls lately who do not want children. And most of them didn't just say "I don't think I want to have children," they were very serious about not having any.

As far as cheating goes, I did meet a girl once who liked going to tourist bars to pick up guys because a) they usually had hotel rooms and b) they would be leaving soon, so less chance of running into them again when she was out with her husband.
cks - [profile] Fri Apr 21st 13:39 2006 / #40
So she represented an example of a married Czech woman who goes to tourist bars to pick up Americans. Interesting. So it must be the sex!
cks - [profile] Wed Apr 26th 12:16 2006 / #41
Damn! Still no Czech girls available to answer the question.
[ anonymous ] - [anon] Wed Apr 26th 12:58 2006 / #42
Tsotsi gave an answer, but Peter doesn't believe it. I guess all the other Czech girls are out using American guys to learn English. ;)
Corbin Dallas - [profile] Thu Apr 27th 02:31 2006 / #43
OK, my two cents worth: Peter, I haven't had any of the experiences you're talking about. Whether it's a guy or a woman, if I sense that someone just wants to be around me to practice their English, I tend to avoid that person. Fortunately, that has only happened maybe once or twice in all the time I've been here. I've found that speaking Czech helps ENORMOUSLY in communicating with people in general here, since Czech people often miss a lot of subtle nuances in the English language, and most people's level of English here is not at all what you'd find in, say, Sweden. In any case, I've spoken Czech with all the Czech women I've dated/had a relationship with here so far, and it's only helped. So, maybe you need to hang with a different crowd.

I'm also a bit tired of the stereotype that Czech women always cheat. The older women that cks talks about sound as if they have had their attitudes molded by their experiences growing up during communism. I think someone on this thread wrote this already, but cheating on one's spouse/significant other was often done here just to counter the boredom and dreariness of everyday life under communism. Old attitudes die hard. But I can't tell you how many younger women I've met here who place a pretty high value on monogamy and a faithful partner. Often, they've become VERY upset at the mere thought that their men could be cheating on them.

The cheating woman, no matter where she's from, is either doing so to because she's immature to begin with, or she's unfulfilled at home. Given the attitudes of a lot of the guys here, and their proclivity to sit around in the pubs drinking beer all night, or sit on their asses in front of the tv watching football and hockey, that second possibility hardly comes as a surprise. But again, I don't agree at all that this is true of all Czech women.

Now, as to this desire among a lot of young women here to rush to the altar and then start popping out kids (forgive the metaphor, it's late at night and I'm delirious)...well, folks, I have to admit I'm stumped. :-)
The Grinning Lemur The Grinning Lemur - [profile] Thu Apr 27th 10:30 2006 / #44
I don't think it's fair to say that it's only the women here that cheat. The men do it too. That was me that mentioned earlier that under the red jackboot of communism there wasn't a whole hell of a lot that people had control over in their lives other than drinking and fucking. Cheating on your spounse was more a bi-product of that.

Corbin, i too see signs of bourgeoning monogamy but is it real? And do we really want it? Western idealism is taking over making it less and less acceptable to run amok with your dong hanging out and your twat like a wizard's sleeve (sorry). Women powerful and confident in their sexuality are an attractive thing. Smothering these natural drives under layers of uptight ideology unhinges something that i kind of like about this place.

Of course i have been recently and brutally dumped by a czech girl so i might be biased.
[ anonymous ] - [anon] Thu Apr 27th 14:26 2006 / #45
You are right, the men cheat more than the women - and that is the excuse the women use sometimes. I can't even begin to count how many times girls have told me 'I am sure he is cheating, so why can't I?' Saddly this attitude has helped to propagate the cheating from one generation to the next. I see almost no difference in the amount of cheating or attitudes about cheating between 30 year olds and 20 year olds. Although, coming back to the original subject of this thread, I have been told by some Czech girls that they prefer Americans and Brits because they are less likely to cheat. Not sure if it is really true, but some girls seem to believe so.
Tribe - [profile] Thu Apr 27th 16:17 2006 / #46
Still, are we sociologists that we can truly claim the Czechs cheat because of the communist regime? I think that's taking it too far.

I think it's more of a religious / morality thing and the Czechs haven't been into religion for quite a while longer than 40 years.

Go ask Polish people their attitudes. I admit I could be wrong, but I suspect during their communism, there wasn't cheating like there was in the CR because of the Catholic Church's role in the Polish people's way of thinking even during those times.
[ anonymous ] - [anon] Thu Apr 27th 23:56 2006 / #47
czech women are 'western'.
most, i've found, are charmed if you can speak czech.
at the same time, they usually find their nation and language unimportant, and think it strange that any foreigner would bother to learn about it.

it's probably true that a fair amount will use you for english. it's also true, i think, that many simply want to experience something different. american men, usually, do respect women and don't expect them to play the role of house-wife. we can thank the feminist movement for that. ultimately, i think it's difficult to forge long-term relationships - i mean, like marriage - because in the end, american men grew up in america and czech women grew up in czech republic/czechoslovakia. there may be a limit to the connection, at least in most cases.
The Grinning Lemur The Grinning Lemur - [profile] Fri Apr 28th 11:19 2006 / #48
True Tribe, we're not sociologists (i have an anthropological degree which is about a usefull as and asshole on your elbow) but nor are we Czech women.

That said i'm going to go out on a limb and state that czech women have far more ambition than czech men. It seems to me when the wall came down it was the women that showed drive and absurdly strong work ethic while the men were still sitting around in hospodas (after a full day of not digging a large incongrous hole) getting drunk and singing folk songs about better days.

It's the women who strived to learn other languages and make themselves skilled for the labour market and it is these same women that come home after a full days work and cooked dinner, took care of the kids and general carried on wife-like behaviour (excluding the philandering).

Perhaps they are caught up in the idea that American men have similar drive and spirit and therefore are well matched.

As far as learning English, i'm under the impression that czechs are after the 'British' english and think derisive thoughts about 'American' english. Wouldn't that exclude free lessons as a possibility if it is a fact they prefer American men over British?
cks - [profile] Fri Apr 28th 18:24 2006 / #49
Maybe you are right. I am sorry that you were burned badly by a Czech girl. Someone else will definately come along for you.
Tsotsi - [profile] Sat Apr 29th 12:52 2006 / #50
Hi guys, I am very suprised to read your comments, it feels like I live in a differnt country, not in the Czech Republic. I am Czech and according to my experience I found western foreigners, especially those who live in Prague, much more cheating than the Czech men. Until I started to date foreigners I didn´t know what "commitment fear" is. Many of my Czech friends of my generation (30) never cheated on their partners and those who did felt at least really bad about it. On the other hand I know younger Czech people who don´t think cheating is wrong and they feel much more sexually free in general. I always thought this was brought here with westernisation! But I think it always depends on what kind of people you hang out with, in each western coutnry you would find all kinds of behaviour.
Tsotsi - [profile] Sat Apr 29th 13:00 2006 / #51
Considering using somebody for learning English - I dont think its difficult to see whether any person is genuinly interested in talking with me or tries to use me. Its just easy - Peter, if you look for nice girls they will not use you. No matter what nationality or place in the World.
jeep - [anon] Sat Apr 29th 18:46 2006 / #52
well most part of women in cr are really mean , always just interested in shopping and stuff, they are jsut interested in using and leaving
so be aware guys
cks - [profile] Sat Apr 29th 20:26 2006 / #53
Tsotsi- you are right about many Western men. They are commitaphobic! They think that if we care about them or want something special, then we want to marry them tomorrow. With Czech men you do not have to wait years to hear the words, "I love you", but I have had experiences with married or commited Czechs who want to cheat on their partners with me. It is confusing. And jeep most of the Czech girls are sweethearts in my experience, but I am not dating them.
Anthony Lauder - [anon] Sat Apr 29th 21:19 2006 / #54
Men are not commitaphobics - many of my male friends are committed to football, going to the pub, looking after their cars, going to work and bringing home a decent wage. The problem isn't about commitment - rather it is the bizzare American and British divorce laws and greedy women in those countries. These mean that for men there is little positive benefit in being in a long term relationship and, in particular, in being married. Thankfully, the Czech Republic has a more sane attitude to equality - making long term relationships here (with the plentiful equality-based feminists this country raises) far more attractive.
Tsotsi - [profile] Sun Apr 30th 18:31 2006 / #55
Anthony, you think that people commit to long term relationship just
for economic or practical reasons?
Anthony Lauder - [anon] Sun Apr 30th 22:17 2006 / #56
No - I think quite the opposite; I think that many men avoid long term relationships for economic or practical reasons
Tsotsi - [profile] Mon May 1st 14:35 2006 / #57
Anthony, my point was - you compare money with deep love? I didnt understand how could money came into decision-making like that in society where everybody has enough to cover the basic needs.
Tsotsi - [profile] Mon May 1st 14:41 2006 / #58
cks - thanks for support! Where are you from? Maybe the western men who are coming to Prague are even more commitaphobic then those living in their own countries? I beleive some Czech men cheat, but the same thing I saw when living in western Europe.
cks - [profile] Mon May 1st 20:32 2006 / #59
Tsotsi- I don't blame the American/expat men one bit for wanting to date Czech women, you girls are total sweethearts, and of course you are different for them. The same way that I get turned on by most foreign men. I just spent all night with a group of wonderful Czechs at a Hurrah party.

On the other hand, I get so sick of all these posts bashing American women, and it is primarily done by the men who could not get us back home or Britain or wherever they are coming from. Anyway, while I finally have a Czech girl's attention, please verify something for me. Mr. Lauder made a comment on another post:

"There I have to disagree with you cks. So long as czech women do not require us men to be "groomed" you are going to be seen as more demanding than them, and hence less attractive to us."

Please tell me that Czech women/you do not have any hygienic or physical expectations of men while they/you continue to work out, bathe, eat healthy, and do everything in your power to look sexy for these ungroomed prizes?
zmxn - [profile] Tue May 2nd 03:01 2006 / #60
Hey Anthony Lauder,

If you're still following this thread, please contact me (see my profile).

-Simon from Lux

And to remain on topic: surely everyone prefers someone well groomed over someone not, all other things being equal.
[ anonymous ] - [anon] Wed May 3rd 03:08 2006 / #61
interesting
[ anonymous ] - [anon] Wed May 3rd 03:13 2006 / #62
heres a question if there were czech women in here. What can i expect from my czech girlfriend who is in her 20's? do they cheat any more or less than other women? Americans have always heard about european women having diffrent attitudes about sex and "cheating" than what we are used to in America. It is said they are much more liberal and sleep with diffrent partners. By the way this is a czech girl living in America coming from czech a couple of years ago.
h2h h2h Wed May 3rd 11:49 2006 / #63
#62,

The Czech reputation for cheating is based on context rather than character. It has something to do with Prague, the Czech Republic and the last oh 20 years [I just made that number up] that I can't be bothered to analyze.
Tsotsi - [profile] Wed May 3rd 20:05 2006 / #64
cks, thanks for interesting question. I think when it comes to grooming, in average Czech women are really less demanding then American women. There is really a cultural difference. American men apologise for things I would never mind about. You will not beleive still 10 years ago we often used the follwing saying: "The right man must smell!" laughing if the men cared too much about theirs looks. But things have changed a lot since then and we became more demanding especially when it comes to dressing nicely/with a bit of style, though not that much about taking shower twice a day. Some scientists are saying that by washing too much the people are loosing very important signal to find the right partner - that is natural smell. Actually I think the use of anti-perspirant is not healthy because it does not allow the sweat to come out naturally. Daily showering and maybe a bit of perfume should be enough. And if I like a man than I like his smell, actually thats the best indicator how well we'll fit sexually. What I like about western men is they care about haircuts and dress much better.
Tsotsi - [profile] Wed May 3rd 20:18 2006 / #65
I also dont like critique of American women in some threads here, especially the way its written - so insensitive and rude. I am not suprised these guys had problems to date nice women.
cks - [profile] Wed May 3rd 21:11 2006 / #66
Well, they just love to bash females in general, and so they alternate between Czech and American women. "The right man must smell". That is too scary for me. Apparently it is still the same motto in most cases today. A man who has the natural sweat from the gym is attractive to me. I do like the fact that men in the US actually go to the gym and try to look attractive for the opposite sex.
lub - [profile] Mon May 8th 07:08 2006 / #67
The right man must smell - I do know this motto and have always cringed when hearing it especially from women... I am happy its buried in the past by now - even if only 10 years away. Who knows where the hell it came from? Maybe it was some pre metro sexual phobia or what. I can certainly be not branded as metrosexual myself - whoever have seen my bathroom must confirm it, nevertheless I dont keep that gym sweat when I walk out of World Class Fitness on Vacl. nam. - they have a great sauna, steam room, showers etc...
cks - [profile] Mon May 8th 17:24 2006 / #68
Pre-metrosexual phobia!! LOL. I don't understand why SOME European men feel that hygiene and nice/decent/washed/ clothing is feminine. Masculine clothing combined with bathing and deoderant constitutes masculinity. It seemed to be the same situation when I visited France 10 years ago. Strange enough in Italy, they wear gallons of hair products to create stiff, unlovable hair, and combine it with a white Miami Vice sport coat and pants. They seem to be quite vain in a "fruity" way. They also douse themselves in cologne, but do not find the time to buy deoderant. But, that was just a rude generalization based on my experience.
Anthony Lauder - [anon] Mon May 8th 19:55 2006 / #69
"I do like the fact that men in the US actually go to the gym and try to look attractive for the opposite sex"

Really? I find that my Czech friends are far more sports oriented than my friends back in the states. Heck, the (very large) gym I go to is packed at 6:30 every morning - mostly with Czech guys.
cks - [profile] Thu May 11th 20:26 2006 / #70
Good advice Anthony, I think I know the gym you are talking about, and I will give it a visit. Would like to see a man with a good body in this town for a change.
Peter Ainsworth - [anon] Mon May 15th 08:49 2006 / #71
The following article from Radio Prague (radio.cz) backs up some of the comments in this thread:

It's nice and warm in Prague these days, and it won't be long now until we're enjoying high summer. And very possibly holding our noses on trams and other packed public spaces: a survey by cosmetics maker Unilever has found that Czechs use less deodorant and anti-perspirant than almost any other nation in Europe. Only the Romanians and the Russians use less.
While the average Briton uses almost five containers of deodorant a year, the average Czech gets through just one and a half. Fifty-one percent of men in this country don't buy any at all.
Jaroslav Cira, who was in charge of the Czech part of the survey, said almost half of Czech consumers only use deodorant for special occasions, unlike in the UK, where 90 percent use it every day. Mr Cira said this was borne out by the fact that some Czechs don't keep deodorant in the bathroom but "on a shelf in the living room, or in some other room".
lub - [profile] Mon May 15th 15:12 2006 / #72
Since we only use deodorant on exceptional days like college graduation, wedding, funeral... sometimes first date, job interview, labour day, we logically keep the container on a display next to family photos, carved crystal and other art objects.

Come on! Do you realy believe this Unilever bs survey? Or maybe it regards only their shity products like Rexona or Axe... That might be.
Anthony Lauder - [anon] Mon May 15th 15:23 2006 / #73
I think there may be some truth to it. Even some of the "modern" Czech guys I know don't bother changing their clothes unless their is some compelling reason. I even know a guy who work, travels, and sleeps in the same clothes for a week at a time (never bothering to take them off until he changes them a week later). I have never met folks like this outside the czech republic. I must admit, that I have even started copying them to a small degree (some days - when I am feeling particularly lazy - I will wear the same clothes I wore the day before) - although I am not at the never-take-them-off stage yet.
lub - [profile] Mon May 15th 15:59 2006 / #74
I think its more likely that Unilever is looking for excuses why their sales drop whereas the real reason is that people here dont wanna wear that Rexona/Axe stink and prefer fro example MEXX or STR8.
[ anonymous ] - [anon] Wed May 17th 17:08 2006 / #75
I have been playing squash around twice a week for the last two years and have noticed the following: About 1/4 of the guys don't take a shower after they play. Of those who do, only half use some sort of soap and only around ten percent wash their hair. Haven't really noticed how many use deoderant or cologne.
I usually play in the middle of the day, so probably these guys aren't just going home afterwards.
I have also been told by many Czech guys and girls that it is bad for you to wash everyday. I guess it depends on the soap you are using. ;)
J - [anon] Wed May 17th 22:41 2006 / #76
cks wrote:
"Peter- I do agree that many Czech women have been burned badly by the American men who fuck them and leave them. I personally know a Czech girl who experienced this situation and is heart broken. I wonder how many American men actually have the intentions of marrying or having a long term relationship with the Czech girls? And I am sure that they are attracted to the aspect of a man who does not live with his parents. I have yet to meet a Czech man who lives alone or with flatmates. Don't know about the using men for English situation, you would know better."

I know this is a little after-the-fact, but I once dated a Czech girl (I am American) and I really, really liked this girl.

Americans don't have the best reputation abroad, but I can safely say that there are some American men who do have good intentions with Czech girls. Who do intend on caring for them and who do have decent jobs and don't live at home, and who won't cheat, and who don't want them just for sex. Some American men, anyway.
cks - [profile] Thu May 18th 11:40 2006 / #77
Thanks for giving us women some hope. I am personally quite scared of most expats. It seems that most of them just want to have some fun and leave. I am getting tired of men trying to pressure me into sex on the first date and second date. I have not had that problem with Czech guys as of yet.
lub - [profile] Thu May 18th 12:24 2006 / #78
Yep, czech guys go by the sex on the 3rd date rule.
The Grinning Lemur The Grinning Lemur - [profile] Thu May 18th 12:35 2006 / #79
The Gag, i think, cks is that the type of guy that wouldn't pressure you for sex on the first and second date is the same type of guy that's probably too shy to ask you out in the first place...In terms of Americans (Also, i'd like clarification; are Canadians lumped in with Americans for the purposes of this discussion?)

And so round and round and round we go.

I believe this is what Joseph Heller was getting at...
cks - [profile] Thu May 18th 12:44 2006 / #80
Lemur-if you are the Canadian from Halifax who I think you are, then I know that you are a nice guy. The few Canadians that I have known are fantastic men, but I have little experience with you Canucks. But, any expat guy from any country makes me nervous nowadays and I find it difficult to trust.
The Grinning Lemur The Grinning Lemur - [profile] Thu May 18th 13:00 2006 / #81
cks-i'm not from Halifax. I realize earlier that i said i might have known you but i think i misfired. I don't think we know each other. Not that it matters much. I haven't met ALL the decent people in the world. Just most of them....

I wouldn't mind shifting the focus to a comparison of differences and nuances between American men (should i make a distinction between Americans and Canucks? I would, but the cultural gap is much bigger across the pond) and British men from the Female point of view without having to start an entirely new thread.
J - [anon] Thu May 18th 16:27 2006 / #82
cks wrote:
"Thanks for giving us women some hope. I am personally quite scared of most expats. It seems that most of them just want to have some fun and leave. I am getting tired of men trying to pressure me into sex on the first date and second date. I have not had that problem with Czech guys as of yet."

I'm sorry to hear that (about the expats).
Anthony Lauder - [anon] Thu May 18th 23:06 2006 / #83
CKS - I don't quite understand what you are saying. Sex is the difference between friendship and lovers. Folks date lovers and socialise with friends. If there is no sex, then how is it a date?
The Grinning Lemur The Grinning Lemur - [profile] Fri May 19th 09:19 2006 / #84
Hey Lauder...foreplay much?
Anthony Lauder - [anon] Fri May 19th 10:29 2006 / #85
I am more into afterplay than foreplay - foreplay is too much like begging
lub - [profile] Fri May 19th 11:43 2006 / #86
for guys is sometimes both foreplay and afterplay like "nutne zlo"
The Grinning Lemur The Grinning Lemur - [profile] Fri May 19th 11:56 2006 / #87
Suddenly this conversation has become very interesting...

heh-heh...

Lauder you feel that foreplay is begging? Interesting, i feel it serves a pupose towards a common mutual goal.

I probably shouldn't have used the word 'foreplay' in my previous post as i meant mild touching and kissing on a date thus qualifying it as a 'date' rather than your definition of 'date' which seems to involve sex. Otherwise...what...it's just two friends having a quiet dinner together?

Hmmm...this doesn't mesh somehow

Shouldn't a date (initially) be about getting a bead on mutual attraction rather than a desperate end-run to the sack?
[ anonymous ] - [anon] Fri May 19th 13:33 2006 / #88
'I am getting tired of men trying to pressure me into sex on the first date and second date.' - well, you are in Prague and guys are used to Czech girls who often do have sex on the first or second date. Also, there are a lot of tourist here who are here for fun and don't have time to wait for the third date before they have sex! ;)

'Yep, czech guys go by the sex on the 3rd date rule.' - that is a complete load of crap! You are just trying to impress cks. American women are the ones with the dating rules - only kiss on first date, no tongue; kiss with tongue on second date; allow him to get to first base... I haven't met any Czech girls who have dating rules. Most have told me they do what they feel is right with each guy.

BTW - cks, I am not suggesting you should have sex on the first or second date or even 10th date if that is what you FEEL - but I much prefer the Czech girls who do what they feel than the American girls who have a pre-planned dating timetable.
Anthony Lauder - [anon] Fri May 19th 15:46 2006 / #89
As I have said before, dating is for people who you are already having sex with.

The time before two folks have a sexual relationship is called friendship - with no obligations beyond that one either side.

The phase during which folks are having a sexual relationship is called dating.

The phase after the sexual relationship is usually called marriage.
The Grinning Lemur The Grinning Lemur - [profile] Fri May 19th 16:25 2006 / #90
Whoa-ho

Quite a few bold statments from Mr. Lauder. Unfortunately it's all largely sematics but let's see if we untangle them.

I would say dating is before sexual relations. At least intitially, if the sex is consistent i would then slide the horny couple into the 'seeing each other' category.

After that, and if there is an element of exclusivity, i would then move them to 'going out'.

I'll ignore your last point based on a high silliness factor.

What a fine topic for spring. If anyone knows any female rodent/monkey things with long prehensile tales and fine fur please let me know...

They're a rarity so high above the equator
lub - [profile] Fri May 19th 17:09 2006 / #91
Also, there are a lot of tourist here who are here for fun and don't have time to wait for the third date before they have sex! ;)
-----------

Yes, and we have a full understanding for the time constraints and apply the necessary flexibility to the rules ;-)
Mike B - [anon] Sat May 20th 10:27 2006 / #92
""What attracts Czech women to American men?""

All of you are way off-base.

Its because we're circumcised, obviously.
thatguy - [profile] Sat May 20th 15:16 2006 / #93
Czech girls now have EU passports, so there is no attraction to EU foreigners now.

America, Austalia, New Zealand, South Africa. These are countries that are exciting, places out sid the norm, some where they can excape to.

Why are you here? Most likely to escape somethnng back home. They want the same, and the US is a great place to run away to.
pane_bee - [profile] Sat May 20th 20:06 2006 / #94
I think this whole thing is off base.

Some of you have some points, but I have been here for some months, and I think my Czech is pretty decent considering many live here for years and can still only barely order a meal. I find that starting a conversation in Czech is 100 percent more effective than in English. Does it devolve into English quickly as I run out of Czech? Sure it does, but they do appreciate the effort, and it shows that you really are here, and not just a tourist or someone who lives in an English bubble.

I digress. The point is that I don't think that Czech girls are particulary drawn to foreigners at all. At least no more or less than anyone anywhere else. I have been here for months and aside from minor luck at dance clubs where language and sobriety were not an issue for anyone, nothing involving sex or serious dating has ever happened here. There, I said it. I don't think Czech girls are "easy" or attracted to Westerners more than Czech men. I know quite a few and none of us are exactly swimming in sweet, high-cheekboned Central Europeans.

Does anyone else agree, or am I totally missing something here? If so, clue me in.
h2h h2h Mon May 22nd 16:03 2006 / #95
I agree.

That English bubble tends to skew reality.
[ anonymous ] - [anon] Tue May 23rd 12:34 2006 / #96
Sorry pane_bee for your bad luck with the women. While it is true that the days of the Czech girls looking for a foreigner to take them away ended more than 10 years ago, there are still a lot of Czech girls looking for foreigners. But, the difference now is that they don't want to leave the Czech Rep. So, your learning of Czech will not be wasted. I have found it helps to show you intend to stay here.
cks - [profile] Tue May 23rd 20:17 2006 / #97
I do not think that it is necessarily the American girls who have dating rules and calendars, maybe it is the guy. We live in a world full of double standards and plenty of American men have told me that they test women on the first date, and do not respect her or want to get involved with her if she has sex on the first date. I have heard that from numerous men throughout my life. Sometimes if you have sex too soon, unfortunately the man starts to categorize you as a fuck buddy and not relationship material. I do believe that sex should happen when the time is right, and perhaps the first date is when the time is right, as long as there is a strong connection (in my opinion). Women are just as horny as men at times and want to attack the guy immediately, but it can result in negative repurcussions. And for me, it is totally annoying when men who I do not know anything about and have not established any connection with, are pressuring me into sex. It also makes me believe that they have no plans to give a damn about me in the future (maybe).
A man who will wait till at least the third date will actually be interested in the woman in question, and not only sex. Three or more dates also allows you to get to know each other. Who wants to sleep with some complete stranger and later learn that they are a psycho. The sex is always so much better after you get to know each other and enjoy each other's company. But then again, men can easily have sex with anyone and anything practically. For most women, sex is emotional. And you guys keep categorizing certain girls as "easy". Is that a good category or bad category? Nothing is wrong with easy girls in my opinion, but are you guys going to have relationships with easy girls?
J - [anon] Wed May 24th 14:25 2006 / #98
When talking about "easy" or not, I think what most men basically want is exclusivity with a girl. So a guy may call a girl "easy" out of anger if some basic part of him is jealous or paranoid, or he just likes her...

I myself don't care at what date sex happens. Sex happens when it happens. Whenever. BUT if I'm in a real relationship with a girl, I certainly do want exclusivity, and I would definitely break up with her if she cheated.
cks - [profile] Wed May 24th 15:21 2006 / #99
Good feedback J, thanks! This is one area/topic about men that I get quite confused about. Interesting to hear that you believe that most men want exclusivity with a girl. I hope that is true.
J - [anon] Thu May 25th 03:49 2006 / #100
cks wrote:
"Good feedback J, thanks! This is one area/topic about men that I get quite confused about. Interesting to hear that you believe that most men want exclusivity with a girl. I hope that is true."

Well, I live here in Boston (United States), and I think Boston is VERY different from the rest of the world. So I can't speak for the rest of the world. But I do know many, many really good men.

But things are different here. We don't often buy drinks for girls, or help them with their coats. On the other hand, we often have good jobs (really good jobs), don't cheat, are very thoughtful, and despite our lack of "chivalry," are genuine with our women. They aren't possessions.

This is how it is for the men I'm friends with and work with and know. I know most foreign women are very surprised by our behavior, but more often than not, really like it once they understand it. It's just different. But I can't speak for all Bostonians or Americans. Some are still bad. You know?
cks - [profile] Thu May 25th 09:40 2006 / #101
You are right to an extent. Most of the American men back home are quite nice, but the ones that move here usually want something temporary. I have to admit the chivalrous behavior of European men is an exciting change.
pane_bee - [profile] Thu May 25th 16:54 2006 / #102
"Easy" simply means there is not alot of work involved in getting a girl to sleep with you. I think it's outdated, and that women today have the right to do what they please with who they please provided they (and their partners) take the necessary precautions.

Please stick to the topic at hand. What I was trying to say by using that term is that for whatever reason, this Republic has a reputation for having alot of attractive women (true) who are lets just say, interested in the opposite sex (foreign and domestic) in a noticable way (doesn't appear to be true).

Now of course that's not to say that sex is the ONLY thing every time you meet a Czech girl or any other, I'm just saying that I have NOT found this particular section of the legend to be true in these parts. I further sumbit that Czech women have not be terribly receptive to longer term arrangements among myself and my peers.

My question remains:
1) Am I wrong?
2) If not, why is it so?

I appreciate anonymous' comments and sympathy. Czechs, is his assertion correct that there are "plenty" of Czech girls out there still in the hunt for foreigners? Or are we all just being rediculous and maybe do Czech girls just go out with who they like on a person to person basis?
[ anonymous ] - [anon] Fri May 26th 00:06 2006 / #103
Of the 5 girls I have dated for at least a few months, only one had dated a foreigner before me. But, I have been asked numerous times by their friends if I knew of some other American guy for them.

I think it also depends a lot on the age of the girls you are talking about. Girls under the age of 22/23 are far more likely to consider moving away from the Czech Republic.

Also, it depends if the girl is from Prague or not. Girls from Prague are far less 'excited' about foreigners.
mmm - [anon] Fri May 26th 06:46 2006 / #104
Nice to read about problems US expats have with Czech girls. While beeing Czech expat in the US, I have to limit my two cents to what I remember only ;-)

First I think the topic you're shooting on is a moving target. Czech girls has changed during last ten years and as everything new an bold is exciting and sounds like a great adventure, it fades and becomes normal and nothing special in some time. However, young girls will be always looking for some adventure and an experience with foreigner is for sure attractive, although I wouldn't limit that to American boys particularly (all "western" guys are a little more attractive then guys coming from other sides of the world).

Why Czech girls date with Czechs? Its indiviual. The same applies for foreigners. Girls always look at you and they might date with you, if they find you attractive for some reason. IMO advantage for "westerners" is, that they could offer a little more than regular Czech guy can in a way .. from practicing English, more money, contact with different culture, treating them better, foreigners are "in" feeling etc .. which some women find attractive enough to come accross the language barrrier, cultural difference, moving abroad etc .. which makes foreigners less attractive in the eyes of other girls.

I agree with the guy who wrote about difference between Prague girls and girls coming from other parts of the country .. for Prague girls the time when dating foreigner was really "cool" and "in" is above its climax and as far as moving abroad that generally coresponds with the trend in whole country - you can find lots of people abroad "forever" coming from North Bohemia and Silesia, but if you find somebody from Prague, it is usually only a time limited experience (at least from the begining) .. just because of the fact, that life in Prague is not bad at all and you don't need to "escape" from there.

So those are my two cents .. enjoy! :-)
cks - [profile] Fri May 26th 12:13 2006 / #105
You are probably right about the Prague girls vs the girls from elsewhere. I don't really know too many Czech girls who are interested in Americans, but my friend who lives in a town about an hour from Prague has plenty of choice in women on a daily basis. He is quite a hit.
h2h h2h Fri May 26th 13:37 2006 / #106
#96,

I disagree. Speaking Czech will not improve your luck with women. On the other hand you will definitely attract women wearing white pants who don’t speak English (watch out for the crewcut "boyfriend" nearby with the tattoo). Once you move past the stage of speaking bad Czech, you may discover that you have nothing in common with the person. At this point it’s a good idea to demand proof from the woman that she intends to stay in the country – e.g. a bank account with CSOB or mortgage payments.
[ anonymous ] - [anon] Fri May 26th 14:14 2006 / #107
Speaking Czech doesn't help much if you are looking for short flings, but it is very important if looking for a long term relationship. It helps to show you are serious about staying here. Although it is true that the better my Czech got, they less impressed I was with most girls. It was always easier before to assume it was a language barrier. ;) I also have yet to find a really intelligent girl who didn't speak English - I am sure they exist, but I haven't found one yet. But, I still say that even if the girl speaks English quite well, she also likes to speak Czech sometimes so she appreciates someone who has bothered to learn Czech.
thekniceguy thekniceguy - [profile] Fri May 26th 14:20 2006 / #108
from post #97:
"But then again, men can easily have sex with anyone and anything practically. For most women, sex is emotional."

ok cks, don't think i'm picking on you, but you keep giving me such great material to quote from!

What is THAT statement all about? You are the queen of gereralizations! And what, sex isn't emotional for a man? Come on...you can't actually think that is true. Perhaps for the men you've...well, lets just stop there lest i damage my kniceguy reputation. :-)
burned guy - [anon] Sat May 27th 12:13 2006 / #109
Speaking czech is very useful if dating girls in province,in small cities where they speak no English.Czech girls prefer Mediteranean men who are supposed to have more temperament than average Czech,that is czech girls enjoy drawing more attention than they are used to in CR.
Czech men show less emotion,are more restricted than average Westerner and have an attitude 50% Slavic and 50% German.Czech girls also resemble Slavic girls behaviour in general but they have more European attitude than them.
Let's say Czech girls are more independant than Ukranian or Russian girls,less romantic than Poilsh ones and less caring than most Slavic girls.Their character though is much more interesting and their behaviour unpredictable.
I think a foreigner respects Czech girls more than other Eastern European girls but they cause to him fear and he will try to avoid marrying them because he knows they will soon get bored of him since their culture is generally superior to his and their emotional IQ higher.
The interesting thing with Czech girls is that sb can get a gorgeous girl because she does not care so much about him,thus has a more free attitude opposite to other Slavic girls who are looking for commitment,offer generally more and in some cases are more difficult to get(since they are beautiful and educated and affectionate and caring).
cks - [profile] Sun May 28th 15:15 2006 / #110
The Nice Guy- Just fishing for the answers that I want to hear. So thanks, wanted to hear that for some men sex is emotional. In the last year that I moved to Prague, I haven't felt that there are many men here who have any emotions beyond their self-love.
burned guy - [anon] Sun May 28th 18:45 2006 / #111
I think American girls follow some guidelines when dating or get advice from other friends,which does not happen in CR because Czech girls decide independantly.In CR it is very common to see gorgeous girls alone shopping etc which is rarely the case in other countries,where they are often accompanied by friends.This makes them a lot easier to approach but also causes a very independant attitude which can have strange consequences.In general everything is possible with Czech girls,sb can never foretell the result.
A foreigner can get a much better-looking girl than he can have in his native country because
1.The good-looking girls are in higher proportion in CR
2.They are easy to approach
3.They do not marry very early like girls in other Slavic countries
4.They can have many boyfriends
5.They get a lower salary than girls in Western Europe
6.They find some foreigners more exotic or have a positive stereotype about them.
As a result an average looking foreigner can get a girlfriend much better-looking and with less demands than he can get in his native country.He is able to realize that very soon.
[ anonymous ] - [anon] Mon May 29th 07:18 2006 / #112
What are you talking about? Czechs are some of the most monogamous (in theory) people I've ever been around. I think it's rare for every Petra not to have a Pavel, and one at that. It sounds like you are talking about Moscow, not Prague. Reevaluate your position.
burned guy - [anon] Tue May 30th 10:53 2006 / #113
I have known Czech girls who had 3 boyfriends simultaneously,others 20 years old who had already more than 10 boyfriends.I think this does not apply only in CR.In every Slavic country,Poland,Russia,Ukraine(maybe not Serbia) girls fall in love very quickly and they like to play with men.This is very common and nobody blames them for that.They just want to have experience,try many things and live an interesting life.
cks - [profile] Tue May 30th 17:20 2006 / #114
Well, we need a Czech gal to confirm the stats and/ or generalizations. I do agree with the notion that it is always a good idea for a woman to try to do more things alone and not cling to their friends resulting in being more approachable. I prefer to travel alone instead of with other girls which results in a more romantic adventure.
joe c - [anon] Thu Jun 8th 10:42 2006 / #115
I liked Czech up to 1995.Prague.Karlovy Vary was beautiful and Czech.The changes in a decade is like a lifetime.I think assimulation and changes since 1989,is confusing to the Czech.but good.They think.Anyway,I like the Czech women,they are to me German work ethic and Italian romantics.The Czech women doesn't sell out.You better not .An Italian from New Jersey.
sofie - [profile] Wed Aug 2nd 02:22 2006 / #116
the only one reason why some czechs of us prefer foreginers is that most of you take care of yourself,haircut,taking shower,use deodorants parfums.and well dressed.only very few procents of czech men dont do that,they are like tarzans.monkeys.im absolutely disgusted by them when i take a bus or tube.and when you complain them,they say theyr not metrosexuals.terrible.and bwt if i go on date with us man(english,italian..),i have to know if he s handome,inteligent,smart,educated,sexy and a bit fit.we dont take all shits they come to prague just cos they r from development country(was 10years ago as somebody said here)have a nice trip here-)
Warrior - [profile] Fri Aug 18th 05:54 2006 / #117
You also must realize most Czech men, like most European men are all gay.
Ferda - [profile] Sat Aug 19th 16:43 2006 / #118
Sofie, you must be very happy in your simple world. I envy you.
Ferda - [profile] Sat Aug 19th 16:49 2006 / #119
"In every Slavic country"

"Slavic world" ("Slavic countries") is a 19th century romanticist construct, a reaction to Pangermanism. In reality, there is no such thing, believe me. Apart from the languages, of course.
Alex Johnstone - [profile] Sat Aug 19th 19:23 2006 / #120
Given that Slavic countries have languages which are essentially distant dialects of each other, I think it is reasonable to describe them as "Slavic Countries". Obviously the links go much deeper than just the languages and are based on a common gene-pool, a similar way of thinking and similar cultures.

Czechs like to distance themselves from Slavs farther east, whom they despise. However this is a pretention.
Ferda - [profile] Sun Aug 20th 00:23 2006 / #121
"Obviously the links go much deeper than just the languages and are based on a common gene-pool, a similar way of thinking and similar cultures."

Not at all, Alex. Believe me, really.

By embracing such opinions you subscribe to the flawed and naive 19th century anthropology bordering racism.

Definitely there is no common gene pool shared specificaly by Slavic-speaking nations. Nowadays it is widely recognised that languages have NOTHING to do with gene pools (apart from some rare cases). For example, Czech and Bulgarian are both Slavic languages yet the physical appearance and the respective gene pools of Czechs and Bulgarians are vastly different. The Bulgarians share their gene pool as well as culture with Greeks, but not with Czechs or Poles.

In contrast, the Czech gene pool is basically the same as anywhere in Central Europe, no matter if the peoples sharing it speak Slavic, Germanic or Ugrofinnic languages.

Culture? This is more a matter of interpretation than biology, of course. But almost any historian, anthropologist or culturologist would tell you that in all relevant aspects the "Czech" culture (be it "high culture" or "common culture") has been shared by Austrians, Hungarians, Slovaks and Slovenes (and other Central Europeans), while it is very far from the culture of Russia, for example.

This is not to show contempt for anyone. It's just fact.

But it is true that the 19th century ethno-linguistic nationalism artificially broadened the differences along the imagined, language-based dividing lines.

Of course, the four decades of communism unfortunately changed a lot in this respect and imposed on all the countries subjected to it certain common cultural patterns. But then if you want to make generalisations, speak about "post-communist countries" and not "Slavic countries" as the latter really doesn't make a sense in any respect save the linguistic one. If you used the latter, where would you put Hungarians, Latvians, Romanians, Lithuanians, Estonians?
Alex Johnstone - [profile] Sun Aug 20th 09:59 2006 / #122
>>In contrast, the Czech gene pool is basically the same as anywhere in Central Europe, no matter if the peoples sharing it speak Slavic, Germanic or Ugrofinnic languages.

No, because the Hungarians and the Finns come from east of the Urals. The Romanians are latin and most of the rest is Slavic.

The question, of course, is whether the slavic language spread because ethnic slavs were spreading, or if it was superimposed over an existing population. 80% of the European gene pool has been stationary since the neolithic period, whereas the slavic languages only spread in the 7th or 8th century, so clearly much of it was superimposed. Neverthless, typical genes such as R1a, on the Y chromosome, are found at 40-60% levels in Eastern Europe and are much rarer in other parts of Europe.

>>all relevant aspects the "Czech" culture (be it "high culture" or "common culture") has been shared by Austrians, Hungarians, Slovaks and Slovenes (and other Central Europeans), while it is very far from the culture of Russia, for example.

Yes, of course. However this doesn't mean that there aren't common threads. The way of thinking of Czechs, Bulgarians and Russians has much in common. However you need to step outside your present framework to see this. Unfortunately, since you meet very few people from other cultures you would find this extremely difficult to do. I can personally find much more in common between different slavic peoples in the way they think and behave than between, say, Czechs and Hungarians.
Ferda - [profile] Sun Aug 20th 11:53 2006 / #123
"No, because the Hungarians and the Finns come from east of the Urals. The Romanians are latin and most of the rest is Slavic."

I repeat that this is nothing more than 19th century mythology. Finnish and Hungarian are both Ugrofinnic languages. "They come from east of the Urals", true. But the LANGUAGES, not the PEOPLE. Physical apperance of Finns and Hungarians and their respective gene pools are very different. Why? Because, I repeat, languages have nothing to do with biology.

Such ideas are based on the obsolete understanding of the "Great Migrations" of the 4th-6th centuries as conceived by 17th century historians and then used by 19th century nationalists and racists.

At that time, nationalists believed that literary the whole "nations" moved accross Europe in early Middle Ages - leaving one place deserted and moving to another place that had been previously deserted by their predecessors. This nonsensical idea was to serve the concept of "blood purity" and nation as a biological entity.

However, nowadays all historians and anthropologists believe that only a very small numbers of people actually migrated, considering not only the common gene pool shared by contemporary Europeans but also the very means of transportation available in 4th century. In fact only the elites (aristocracy, warriors) migrated, often bringing their language with them to the new territory and imposing it on the subjected indigenous populations (but not always – remember the case of Bulgarians who were originally a Turkic folk but accepted the Slavic language of the population they conquered). So, languages born by a relatively small people migrated, but the bulk of population remained the same.

Take the example of “Czechs”. It is now commonly accepted that the Slavic-speaking warrior elite (which must have been composed of very diverse ethnic components itself) totalled approximately 10% of the population of Bohemia and Moravia when they arrived in this territory in the 6th century. Approximately 90% of the territory’s population was indigenous, “pre-Slavic”. However, subsequently the Slavic-speaking elite succeeded in imposing their language over the indigenous population.

Another good example is the occurence of blond and blue-eyed people in the territories adjacent to the Baltic and North Seas. German nationalists and racists declared these as a charactetistic features of Germanic uebermenchen. This is, of course, nonsense as a simple look on the map easily reveals. The occurence of blond and blue-eyed people is territory based, not ethno-lingustically based. Simply, Northern Europeans tend to be blond and blue-eyed regardless if they speak Germanic, Slavic, Ugrofinnic or Baltic languages.

So you are absolutely correct that all Europeans share the bulk of their gene pool. But this contradicts your idea of a “Slavic” peoples sharing one distinctive gene pool. And the little piece of the gene pool that is not shared by all Europeans is either “Northern European” or “Central European” or “Iberian” or “Balkan” but definitely not “Germanic”, “Slavic” let alone “Latin”.

Yes, Romanian language is Latin (the least Latin one of all Latin languages). But it has NOTHING to do with the genetic background of the population speaking the language. Moreover, you should know that Romanian underwent a drastic artificial reforms in the 19th century to became "more Latin".

As for your opinion that there is a "way of thinking” allegedly shared by Bulgarians, Czechs and Russians “because they are Slavic peoples”:

My impression is that this opinion of yours is based on some anecdotical observations you try to rationalise to yourself. Could you give us some practical examples what you actually mean by the common "way of thinking"?
Ferda - [profile] Sun Aug 20th 12:17 2006 / #124
One more and perhaps even more instructive example.

I am a "Czech". I speak Czech as my mother tongue and consider myself to be a "Czech".

Yet, my grandmother is German, born in Liepzig. So, what do you think about my "gene pool"? Am I 75% "Slavic" and 25% "Germanic"? What you will now do with your neat biology-based theories about a distinctive gene pool and a resulting "way of thinking" shared by all "Slavs"?

To complicate things even more for you, some other of my ancestors were "German" as well (which means German speaking). So the share of "Germanic blood" in my veins is even larger than 25%. What does it implies for your Weltanschauung?

And finally, some nation-wide facts:

About 27% Czechs have German surnames. Virtually everybody in this country has ancestors bearing German surnames. More importantly, virtually everybody in this country has ancestors who actually were Germans (speaking German or even thinking of themselves as being Germans).

Conversely, about 25% of Austrians have Czech surnames and many more of them Czech ancestry.

What will you do with these facts vis-a-vis your grand "Slavic theory"?
Alex Johnstone - [profile] Sun Aug 20th 12:34 2006 / #125
I didn't say that all Slavic people were the same, simply that there is a common thread which holds them together. Yes, of course, there is a lot of German and Austrian blood in the Czech Republic, which probably explains why Czechs are more like Germans than Russians are like Germans. For example, they are much more reserved.
Ferda - [profile] Sun Aug 20th 13:41 2006 / #126
"there is a common thread which holds them together"

Well, such vague a statement can be said of any community of "nations" you imagine.

And if there really was "a common thread which holds them together", it was only attempted to be forged by the 19th century Pan-Slavic (political) movement and we speak about a discursive construct and "imagined community" at best, but definitely not about "facts".
Alex Johnstone - [profile] Sun Aug 20th 14:08 2006 / #127
Sorry, I missed your earlier post.

>>I repeat that this is nothing more than 19th century mythology. Finnish and Hungarian are both Ugrofinnic languages. "They come from east of the Urals", true. But the LANGUAGES, not the PEOPLE. Physical apperance of Finns and Hungarians and their respective gene pools are very different. Why? Because, I repeat, languages have nothing to do with biology.

Well yes they do. For example, Thai people speak Thai and not Quechua. In fact both Finns and Hungarians do share common physical features, especially high cheek bones. Since they are descended from the same group of people this isn't surprising.


>>Such ideas are based on the obsolete understanding of the "Great Migrations" of the 4th-6th centuries as conceived by 17th century historians and then used by 19th century nationalists and racists.

Either the Finno-Ugric languages came from east of the Urals or they didn't. If they did, they probably didn't fly through the air. Clearly they were brought to their present position by mass migrations. Actually there is plenty of much more recent work which traces movements of people across Europe based on their language origins.


>>At that time, nationalists believed that literary the whole "nations" moved accross Europe in early Middle Ages - leaving one place deserted and moving to another place that had been previously deserted by their predecessors. This nonsensical idea was to serve the concept of "blood purity" and nation as a biological entity.

>>However, nowadays all historians and anthropologists believe that only a very small numbers of people actually migrated, considering not only the common gene pool shared by contemporary Europeans but also the very means of transportation available in 4th century

>>In fact only the elites (aristocracy, warriors) migrated, often bringing their language with them to the new territory and imposing it on the subjected indigenous populations (but not always – remember the case of Bulgarians who were originally a Turkic folk but accepted the Slavic language of the population they conquered). So, languages born by a relatively small people migrated, but the bulk of population remained the same.

This is an interesting point. However, in the absence of any scientific data it is yet more speculation (this time from a politically correct standpoint rather than a racist one).

In order to work out the percentage of genetic influences from different sources you need to trace specific genes. There has been some interesting work done recently about the British gene-pool and its relationship to that of Denmark.


>>Take the example of “Czechs”. It is now commonly accepted that the Slavic-speaking warrior elite (which must have been composed of very diverse ethnic components itself) totalled approximately 10% of the population of Bohemia and Moravia when they arrived in this territory in the 6th century. Approximately 90% of the territory’s population was indigenous, “pre-Slavic”. However, subsequently the Slavic-speaking elite succeeded in imposing their language over the indigenous population.

The original population may have been only 10%. However elites have a habit of breeding much more successfully than the rest of the population. Again, you need figures, and figures come from science.

>>Another good example is the occurence of blond and blue-eyed people in the territories adjacent to the Baltic and North Seas. German nationalists and racists declared these as a charactetistic features of Germanic uebermenchen.

Hitler was an unpleasant character. However the fact that he believed something doesn't mean that it is automatically untrue. This is "truth" based on political correctness, not intelligent argument.

>>Northern Europeans tend to be blond and blue-eyed regardless if they speak Germanic, Slavic, Ugrofinnic or Baltic languages.

Except that this is not the case. The proportion of blond people in the north of Finland is much lower than the proportion of blond people in the north of Sweden.

Yes, Romanian language is Latin (the least Latin one of all Latin languages). But it has NOTHING to do with the genetic background of the population speaking the language. Moreover, you should know that Romanian underwent a drastic artificial reforms in the 19th century to became "more Latin".

Obviously before the Roman Empire people did not speak a romance language. However a very considerable number of Romans and other Italians settled there. Plus the people look like southern europeans and behave in a way which is much more like other southern europeans than it is like Slavs or people with Germanic roots.


>>>As for your opinion that there is a "way of thinking” allegedly shared by Bulgarians, Czechs and Russians “because they are Slavic peoples”:

>>My impression is that this opinion of yours is based on some anecdotical observations you try to rationalise to yourself. Could you give us some practical examples what you actually mean by the common "way of thinking"?

Yes, but not without offending you.
Ferda - [profile] Sun Aug 20th 15:21 2006 / #128
Alex,

You must be really upset. I understand that your frustration comes from the other thread but here I have always tried to be absolutely decorous.

Are you some kind of a perpetual dissident stubbornly disagreeing with everything other people say, regardless of what they say?

None of your responses rebuts any of the arguments and facts I presented. Moreover, your responses are often contradictory and you often cut my sentences out of their context. You pompously ask for "scientific data" but present none yourself.

Alex, what I wrote has nothing to do with political correctness. We don't have such a thing here in Continental Europe (apart from Holocaust :-) and yet most European historians and anthropologists share the opinions I just humbly repeated after them in my posts.

What I wrote are no personal impressions ingested when sitting with mates in a nighclub, they are the "science" you call for.

You wrote: "This is an interesting point. However, in the absence of any scientific data it is yet more speculation (this time from a politically correct standpoint rather than a racist one)."

But of course, this point IS based on scientific data of various nature (genetics, lingustic, archaeology, anthropology, paleobiology, written records, population&agricultural land projections). True, we do not have any censuses and birth records from early Middle Ages so our current knowledge about the period is probably not up to your version of "science".

But I really wasn't told this yesterday in a pub (even if I know you regard such places very high intellectually).

Btw, you cannot offend me because I am about 40 - 50% Germanic :-))))))
Alex Johnstone - [profile] Sun Aug 20th 15:42 2006 / #129
Dear Ferda,

You claim that the different slavic nations have nothing more in common with each other than...other Europeans? Or all humans? The latter is obviously nonsense, but the former is at least worth investigating.

You make the specific claim that the Czech language was brought here by only 10% of the population. Linguistics won't help you much there. Paleobiology is irrelevant because this migration (or whatever it was) occurred relatively recently; and anthropology rarely comes up with any sense.

The only sensible sources of information I can think are a) genetic studies of the populations - comparing specific genes between different Slavic people - and *possibly* historical records which actually show figures. I am sure that you know a lot more about Czech history than I do. However, if the Domesday Book is anythng to go by it wouldn't be enough to make a prediction with anything like that kind of accuracy. You would need to know who married whom, how many children they had, if they survived and so on. Dominant peoples tend to have far more surviving children than the peoples they conquor.

In fact it is difficult to see how anything other than genetic research would be of much help.

I am not trying to offend you and I am sorry if I am dismissive. However you have made a very bold statement - unlike me, you gave a specific figure - and need to say where that information has come from. Quote some papers.
Alex Johnstone - [profile] Sun Aug 20th 17:47 2006 / #130
This is exactly what happened in the UK, for example. According to Mark Thomas from University College London, between 10,000 and 200,000 Germanic settlers invaded Britain between the 5th and 7th centuries AD during a period when the population was 2 million. However they managed to use their dominant position to out-breed the native population. Today between 50 and 100% of British men's Y-chromosomes are of Germanic origin, and the country speaks a Germanic language.

It doesn't seem unreasonable to suppose that similar dynamics may have worked during other migrations. Note that he needed to look at genes to determine this. Historical records by themselves would have suggested that the Germanic influence was tiny (at most 10%).
under_kontrol - [profile] Sun Aug 20th 17:00 2006 / #131
As a person who has stayed both in Czech and Germany, I would say the differences between slavs and non-slavs are pretty obvious. Ignoring the fact doesn't change the reality. As far as mixing is concerned, you can't stop that between two neighbours, but then again the two are identical.
Vickey - [profile] Sun Aug 20th 17:58 2006 / #132
Alex:

"Given that Slavic countries have languages which are essentially distant dialects of each other..."

Ohohoh, slow down Alex. If so, you should know croatian and belorussian fluently when living 10 years in the Czech republic.

Slavic languages have their core in north-east carpathian slopes, closed to west-ukrainian city of Lviv.

In compare with latin and espacially germanic languages they are complicated in grammar. This means following:

An appropriation (?, I mean Alex - Alex's) is creating 18 differnet forms (3 genders, 3 personalisations, singular/plural) in slavic languages. This means 18 forms in czech and 18 one-each-different in polish and 18 one-each-different in bulgarian. In germanic languages this creates one form ("s") in all of them. This sounds extremly simple or even funny for Slavs. The only difference is, in english you put an apostroph, while in german not. So, if you want to learn a language appropriation (sorry, I don t know how it is called in english grammar term) in german, you learn 1 (one!) character: "S". If you can remember this in half a second, you learned the whole language appropriating in english, german, dutch, norwegian, swedish, danish, faroes and icelandic in half a second. By the way, can you appropriate correctly in czech when living 10 years here?

So, if you say, due to this fact, that: "Given that Slavic countries have languages which are essentially distant dialects of each other...", it sounds nothing but all-fired ignorant.

PS: Slavic languages, contrary to germanic, latin, baltic or ugro-finian, exist in countries of two different literacies.

PPS: If you are not able to distinguish slavic language by hearing, it is just because you are not used about them (though you should be). My great-grand mother was not used about germanic languages and she would probably not be able to distinguish dutch and swedesh by hearing :))).
Alex Johnstone - [profile] Sun Aug 20th 18:39 2006 / #133
>>Ohohoh, slow down Alex. If so, you should know croatian and belorussian fluently when living 10 years in the Czech republic.

No, and neither would a native Czech speaker. I said *distant* dialects. Czech and Polish are almost mutually intelligible, as are Czech and Ukrainian. Slovenian is close to Slovak, which of course is intelligible by most Czech speakers.

>>By the way, can you appropriate correctly in czech when living 10 years here?

I am not sure what you mean here: this sentence makes no sense because you are using the word "appropriate" inappropriately. Do you mean to decline and conjugate? If so, the answer is yes, obvious, otherwise I woudn't be able to communicate.

And yes, the endings of different Slavic languages are very similar, showing their common roots. The only major exceptions I can think of are Bulgarian and Macedonian, which have no case endings.

I am not sure what the reason for your elementary grammar lesson is. My guess is that you believe that I must be ignorant of slavic languages because I am a stupid foreigner. You are also quite ignorant of your own language: can you give me a single example of a Czech noun which has 18 different forms? What do you mean by "personalizations"? You need to use a dictionary here.

>>So, if you say, due to this fact, that: "Given that Slavic countries have languages which are essentially distant dialects of each other...", it sounds nothing but all-fired ignorant.

On the contrary, many linguists share this opinion, as you would know if you had studied linguistics.

>>PS: Slavic languages, contrary to germanic, latin, baltic or ugro-finian, exist in countries of two different literacies.

I am really not sure what this is supposed to mean.

>>PPS: If you are not able to distinguish slavic language by hearing, it is just because you are not used about them (though you should be). My great-grand mother was not used about germanic languages and she would probably not be able to distinguish dutch and swedesh by hearing :))).

I can distinguish Slavic languages quite easily (except Croatian/Serbian, which are essentially the same language anyway). I have also communicated successfully with people speaking five other Slavic languages apart from Czech, based on their similarity to Czech. So no, I am not an ignorant foreigner as you seem to think.
Vickey - [profile] Sun Aug 20th 19:08 2006 / #134
Alex:

... "I am not sure what the reason for your elementary grammar lesson is. My guess is that you believe that I must be ignorant of slavic languages because I am a stupid foreigner."

Becuse evaluating slavic languages as distant dialect can do a stupid foreigner. You are not, so why such a simple-minded judgments??? Three questions:

1. So, if I follow your way of speaking, than all germanic languages are essentailly distant dialects of each other, aren t they?

2. So, if I follow your way of speaking, than all latin languages are essentailly distant dialects of each other, aren t they?

3. If you can communicate five other Slavic languages apart from Czech, based on their similarity to Czech, do these (Macedonians, Serbians, Russians) understand you, speaking Czech? I don t have an experience of fluent comunication with Russians :), using my simple russian supplemented by czech/polish, depending what of that was the second person to understand.

"Decline" is the word I missed.

15: (+3 non-changing endings by declinations)
-ův
-ova
-ovo
-ovi
-ovy
-ova
-in
-ina
-ino
-ini
-iny
-ina
-i
-a


+ -ová when declining surnames
Alex Johnstone - [profile] Sun Aug 20th 19:25 2006 / #135
>>Becuse evaluating slavic languages as distant dialect can do a stupid >>foreigner. You are not, so why such a simple-minded judgments???

Probably because I wasn't brought up in this country and am able to see the wood for the trees. Why are Czechs so desperate to distance themselves from other Slavs?????

Three questions:

Can't you even get English word order right? You can't just translate each word directly from Czech: the word-order in English is different.

>>1. So, if I follow your way of speaking, than all germanic languages are essentailly distant dialects of each other, aren t they?

No they aren't. German, Dutch and English are not mutually intelligible, even partially. However Swedish, Danish and Norwegian might reasonably be considered as dialects. As a famous linguist once said "a language is a dialect with an army behind it".

>>2. So, if I follow your way of speaking, than all latin languages are essentailly distant dialects of each other, aren t they?

No, for the same reason. It is possible that Romansch and Romanian are close enough to be mutually intelligible, as, probably, are Catalan and Spanish (I don't know enough Catalan to judge this).

>>3. If you can communicate five other Slavic languages apart from Czech, based on their similarity to Czech, do these (Macedonians, Serbians, Russians) understand you, speaking Czech? I don t have an experience of fluent comunication with Russians

Neither do I. You had better revise your list of Slavic languages which are closest to Czech.

15: (+3 non-changing endings by declinations)
-ův
-ova
-ovo
-ovi
-ovy
-ova
-in
-ina
-ino
-ini
-iny
-ina
-i
-a

Sorry, I can only count 15 here. If they don't change then they don't count as different endings, do they?
+ -ová when declining surnames

In any case, possessive adjectives are hardly typical. The question, of course, is, what are those endings in other similar slavic languages?
Ferda - [profile] Sun Aug 20th 20:01 2006 / #136
Oh my....

Vicky, do us a favour and go out to play with the kids, please.
Ferda - [profile] Sun Aug 20th 20:03 2006 / #137
Alex, I will come back tomorrow. I am happy our discussion has finally calmed down a bit.
Ferda - [profile] Sun Aug 20th 20:04 2006 / #138
Deleted post.
Vickey - [profile] Sun Aug 20th 20:12 2006 / #139
1. Why such an offense against my english? I know it is far from perfect, but having long discussions today, you have been supposed to find out I do not translate each word directly from Czech. What is wrong in "Three questions", please?

2. "Mutually intelligible", what does it mean exactly? People understand each other? Following my personal experiences and talks with foreigners about it, I found out these:
Danes and Norwegians understand each other.
They understand Swedes/(and opposite) if speaking slowly and carefully
If they have a gift of a good ear-sense, Germans and Dutch can more or less understand each other
Germans don t understand swiss german :)
English don t understand anyone
Neither French do...
If they have a gift of a good ear-sense, Spaniards and Portugese can more or less understand each other
I know a spanish guy, who can understand Italian without having personal experience with the language
Fins and Estonians understand each other
Due to common historical reasons, nations of former Yugoslavia understand each other
Fins and Estonians understand each other
Czechs and Slovaks understand each other
Nobody understand Hungarians
Polish mostly don t understand any Czech, even when Czechs speak slowly and properly
Russians mostly don t understand Czech
Bulgarians and Macedonians understand each other
If they have a gift of a good ear-sense, Albanians and Turks can more or less understand each other
Most of Czechs don t understand Croatians on their Adriatic holidays almost at all...

Where is the point? On which base have you realised that Slavic languages are mutually intelligible while latin are not?
Vickey - [profile] Sun Aug 20th 20:31 2006 / #140
Ferda:

All right.

I am piffling of tireness :))), hopefully czech kids will help me to decline correct...
Alex Johnstone - [profile] Sun Aug 20th 20:39 2006 / #141
>>>1. Why such an offense against my english? I know it is far from perfect, but having long discussions today, you have been supposed to find out I do not translate each word directly from Czech. What is wrong in "Three questions", please?

Mainly spelling, word-order and articles. However nobody is perfect: I know that I make plenty of mistakes in foreign languages, especially when I am tired.

>>>2. "Mutually intelligible", what does it mean exactly? People understand each other? Following my personal experiences and talks with foreigners about it, I found out these:
Danes and Norwegians understand each other.
They understand Swedes/(and opposite) if speaking slowly and carefully
If they have a gift of a good ear-sense, Germans and Dutch can more or less understand each other

No they can't, unless they happen to come from the north and know a dialect such as Plattdeutsch.

>>Germans don t understand swiss german :)

Well they understand it better than Dutch. It depends on how strong the dialect is, of course. Sometimes it is difficult to understand.

>>>English don t understand anyone

I think that Frisian and English are about 50% mutually intelligible.

>>Neither French do...


>>If they have a gift of a good ear-sense, Spaniards and Portugese can more or less understand each other

Very marginally, yes.

>>I know a spanish guy, who can understand Italian without having personal experience with the language
So he says. There is a region of Italy where the dialect is similar enough for the people to understand Spanish. However I really don't think that an average Spanish speaker can understand enough Italian to be able to communicate effectively. Almost.


>>Fins and Estonians understand each other
Estonians understand Finnish: I am not sure that Finns understand Estonian. I think this is because Estonians watch Finnish television, not because the languages are similar enough that they are mutually intelligible.



Fins and Estonians understand each other

Czechs and Slovaks understand each other



>>Polish mostly don t understand any Czech, even when Czechs speak slowly and properly

Nonsense. They understand me reasonably well so I am sure that they would understand a native speaker.

>>Russians mostly don t understand Czech
>>Bulgarians and Macedonians understand each other
>>If they have a gift of a good ear-sense, Albanians and Turks can more or less understand each other
I doubt that very much.

Most of Czechs don t understand Croatians on their Adriatic holidays almost at all...


Where is the point? On which base have you realised that Slavic languages are mutually intelligible while latin are not?

I didn't say that they were all mutually intelligible. Each language is intelligible by speakers of their neighbours (for examle, Slovak is closer to Polish and to Slovenian than Czech is). There is a gradation within countries, as well. This is true to a much more limited extent in Romance languages, but these are really much more distinctive, as are the germanic languages (apart from the Scandinavian ones).

There is no clear distinction between a language and a dialect (apart from the presence of an army). For example, many dialects of Slovenian are almost mutually unintelligible. However it is a reasonable point of debate to contend that the Slavic languages are essentially dialects - superdialects if you will - of the same language.

You still haven't worked out which Slavic languages are closest to Czech, have you?
Vickey - [profile] Sun Aug 20th 21:43 2006 / #142
#139 was "Following my personal experiences and talks with foreigners about it"...

I did neither found the so called "mutuall intelligibility" among slavic languages there nor in #141. One more thing I didn t get, how is it possible to express a "mutuall intelligibility" by percentage? What is the % of "mutuall intelligibility" between Czech and Polish when we have so different personal experience? Even "Dobry den, na jake jmeno mate rezervaci?" isn t understood by about half of our polish guests.

"You still haven't worked out which Slavic languages are closest to Czech, have you?"
Let me guess:
1. czech in Moravske Slovacko and Kopanice / slovak in Zahorie
2. czech in Tesinske Slezsko / polish in Slask Cieszynski
3. upper lusatia serbian
Alex Johnstone - [profile] Sun Aug 20th 22:08 2006 / #143
>>I did neither found the so called "mutuall intelligibility" among slavic languages there nor in #141.

Well, Ukrainian, Polish, Czech, Slovak and Sorbian are all close enough for a reasonable degree of communication (in all cases, far greater than between Italian and Spanish).


>>One more thing I didn t get, how is it possible to express a "mutuall intelligibility" by percentage? What is the % of "mutuall intelligibility" between Czech and Polish when we have so different personal experience?

I have no idea why you have such difficulty making yourself understood by Polish people. I myself speak Czech when I am in Poland and many Czech people have told me that they do the same. The best way to measure the similarity of the languages is to measure the percentage vocabulary which they have in common. I am sure that there are many linguists who spend their time doing things like this.


Even "Dobry den, na jake jmeno mate rezervaci?" isn t understood by about half of our polish guests.

I think that sometimes the problem is that they don't expect to understand, and therefore don't even try. I have often found that when I ask Poles if they understand Czech they say "no", but when I actually speak to them they do understand most of what I am saying. I would have thought that even a native English speaker with no Czech at all would be able to understand the question above, if only as a result of using their common sense.


"You still haven't worked out which Slavic languages are closest to Czech, have you?"
Let me guess:
1. czech in Moravske Slovacko and Kopanice / slovak in Zahorie
2. czech in Tesinske Slezsko / polish in Slask Cieszynski
3. upper lusatia serbian

Yes, except that 3. is more often called Sorbian in English. I would suggest that Ukrainian is also pretty close (certainly much closer than Russian is). Slovenian is a distant third, although a Slovak speaker would probably be able to understand it quite well.
theCRACKsmoker theCRACKsmoker - [profile] Mon Aug 21st 11:16 2006 / #144
czech girls like american guys because we don't hate ourselves and perhaps even have a glimmer of self-confidence, arrogance even ;-)
DIRK DIGGLER - [profile] Sat Sep 2nd 16:10 2006 / #145
I have f**ked abot 20 czech women at this stage - they were all stunningly beautiful - Thhey were all whores in the bedroom and they were all nice decent girls outside that bedroom - what more can any man want in a woman

I think this should end the debate - CZECH GIRLS RULE - and men from any nationallity will always fall for their charms
Morgaine62 - [profile] Sun Sep 3rd 19:04 2006 / #146
OMG, well, the best thing about coming to this forum is to remember WHY I left the US and WHY I despise most of these people.

OK, it's like this: Czech women don't like US or English or Canadian or any other men any better than any other men. As a matter of fact, I've had several Czech women friends tell me that a) US men "are good at the foreplay, but at the real fucking they are useless"; and b) the US men they've dated "just wanted a mother" and as soon as they (women)figured that out, relationship was over.

WOMEN like MEN who are emotionally mature, personally stable (including, I suppose, economically , although I know Czech women who have "stay at home" male partners and are perfectly happy that way), take responsibility for their actions, are honest, fair, and willing to WORK at the relationship.

Without these elements, you poor sad bastards really don't have a chance with ANY woman in the long run--even a MAIL ORDER BRIDE will leave you eventually.

Moral of this story: Stop looking for the "perfect woman" and create the perfect YOU
Christina Sun Sep 24th 02:22 2006 / #147
I and my friends read all the comments now. We are three girls from Prague and just let u know that the comments from foreign guys just hurt us. I hope u are all happy and I really start feel hate from the talk of you guys who come here and have fun with girls . I didn’t see difference czech and foreign man but after reading this I see huge different I know that Czech man will never speak and behave like that. Thanks for let us know about your culture and values. I don’t think I will ever think to date guy from other country.
Alex Johnstone - [profile] Sun Sep 24th 09:25 2006 / #148
>>WOMEN like MEN who are emotionally mature, personally stable (including, I suppose, economically , although I know Czech women who have "stay at home" male partners and are perfectly happy that way), take responsibility for their actions, are honest, fair, and willing to WORK at the relationship.

Unfortunately, most women these days are obsessed with men's appearance. They *think* that they want some someone with "a sense of humour" or someone who is emotionally mature. Yet in practice they will always choose a tall, attractive but emotionally needy moron over a short, well-balanced genius making $200,000 a year. By the way, I'm not short myself, but I know enough short men to know how it must feel.

>> Thanks for let us know about your culture and values. I don’t think I will ever think to date guy from other country.

Christina. Don't judge the attitudes of 3 billion non-Czech men based on half a dozen comments on this site.
Hommes Sun Sep 24th 13:54 2006 / #149
Morgain Said

"OMG, well, the best thing about coming to this forum is to remember WHY I left the US and WHY I despise most of these people."

Hommes Says:

No Morgaine that is not why you left the US. The average US girl left because

1. you like holidays

2. You didnt just want to be another nobody in the US

3. You come here with your mediocre english skills and the locals who dont know any better think that you are an excellent native speaker

4. You are bitter about American men from your own personal experiences

5. You want to get away from your family and local community influences

6. You post vitriol here about Western men because you can't get one to marry you and who would marry a US girl when they are just another double cheeseburger squaffing triple chinned girls who want to act like men.

The bottom line is that we cannot deny who we are. And for decades now the US woman and western woman has been independent and aggressive (acting like men), free thinking and free acting (acting like men) and free eating (eating like elephants) and driving everywhere and doing no manual work that demands the diets that western women have.

In simple language - it's not even about looks - its about behaviour - and that is very different behaviour from the relatively modest, feminine, constrained behaviour of many of the women I know here.
Alex Johnstone - [profile] Sun Sep 24th 14:42 2006 / #150
It's a matter of taste. I prefer American women because they are more likely to have something intelligent to say than Czech women.
Even the most stupid American woman has the capacity for a limited amount of independent thought: the ones who have a good standard of education and basic intelligence are truly outstanding.

In addition, American women are more straightforward and less manipulative than Czech women, and are not so obsessed with their appearance and having babies.

It's true that many American women are fat, and that's a great pity. However I suspect that within ten years just as many Czech women will be overweight.
Hommes Tue Sep 26th 14:11 2006 / #151
Watch this video to really see the differences between the Western woman (on average) and the Czech girls.


http://www.sikvid.com/vids/2279.html

Im sitting here at my fakulty typing this watching my Czech girl friends eat like sparrows and thinking - what if this were a Western campus? Hot dogs, pies, pastries, big pizzas and shakes to wash it down - MMM MMM!
Linda B. - [profile] Sat Mar 10th 01:08 2007 / #152
I am a Czech girl and have discovered this discussion only now in March 2007. I am quite shocked/ disappointed by some opinions and thoughts of the American men talking about Czech women. As for the original question "what attracts Czech women to American men?": I do not think at all Czech women are attracted more to Americans than to other men. I have met quite a few American men in my life (+my best friend is married to an American)and have found a lot of them a little bit too much materialistic, self-centered and self-righteous + unsporty/ unattractive. Also I have to say Czech women/ people are very often much better educated than Americans. I realize as a doctor of medicine I come from a special/ different background but still I gather I can talk about an average Czech girl. Another point is that as a European we cannot really accept the concept of "America as the best country of the world" and the patriotism. I have studied in Britain, now live in Germany having a British fiance and I can see e.g. the English humour and European roots are much closer to the Czech way of thinking than the one in US. At last, many Czech girls I know have got a sincere heart, are much more tender+ caring than women in the "western world".I find the thought with learning English through having an American boyfriend completely ridiculous! Most Americans I know do not know the grammar properly so it is a real danger to learn big mistakes:-)
skydog - [profile] Sat Mar 10th 09:04 2007 / #153
Your grammar could use quite a bit of work as you "don't know the grammar properly...". Perhaps being with your British fiance is not helping.

Additionally, Your comment about czech people being more educated is just plain ignorant on your part, what percentage of czechs actually go to unversity compared to Americans? Also the American education system at the college level is much more more open and less rigid that the Czech system.
Linda B. - [profile] Sat Mar 10th 09:52 2007 / #154
Thanks for your friendly comment about my mistake and my fiance! It has been really nice of you! (Firstly, it is not my mother language and will never be. Secondly, I am not with my fiance to improve my English. Thirdly, I live in Germany so my "second language" is German and I speak two other foreign languauges - my intention has always been to be able to communicate and work as a doctor in more languauges than to know one foreign language perfectly!) Thanks for your friendly comment!

I have answered the very first question as many men have repeatedly said they would like an opinion from a Czech girl. I have not joined to critisize American men as I am not stupid + know some great American friends. I have been asked to go out with many American men and have met many in my life. I have only described my feelings as the men in this discussion were asking for it.
I was not talking about "paper education", I was talking about what people really know. And e.g. when you ask me where different states of the US are or when the country was founded, I can answer. But so far I have unfortunatelly met a lot of Americans that do not know Czechoslovakia does not exist anymore and asking me if the war is still going on as they thought it was actually Chechnya.
pane_bee - [profile] Sat Mar 10th 11:19 2007 / #155
A few things.

I have been here a while now. I have been lucky enough to have dated a great Czech woman for about half a year, and quite frankly, it has more to do with her unique personality than that she's Czech, though I admit, that was a draw initially. Yes, her approach to life is different based on growing up here and I find her straightforwardness helps someone like me who has little patience for #*&$#*ing around and mystery in interpersonal relations.

I have been watching those around me and gathering information. As an American I have come to the conclusion that men who do well with women generally will do very well here because it's such a fun-loving-let's-go-get-a-drink-and-see-what-happens culture. But for the normal man, coming to Prauge isn't going to make you a god.

As regards Czech women being smarter than American, I don't really believe this. What I will say unequivially though, is that due to the fact that 400 km in any direction from the Jan Hus statue is another country, Czech women by their very nature have to be a bit more "worldly" let's say. Plus, for those that live in Prague, they will (if they speak English, since I doubt most of you are chasing skirt in Czech) probably have had extensive contact with foreigners in work or play over the course of their young lives, providing a bit of knowledge. In the US it's different. Even if you grow up in a city, immigrants by and large keep to themselves or try to assimalate. Here, migrants tend to maintain their identity, so these girls learn more from a Norwegian colleague than if he/she was trying to "become Czech."

Anyway, nothing agianst other girls, I just have a soft spot for Czech ones.

Cau for now.
Linda B. - [profile] Sat Mar 10th 12:52 2007 / #156
Cau pane_bee,

it was great to hear from somebody who is able to discuss and not just insult like in the answer from skydog! Diky.
It is marvellous and funny to see the own culture through the eyes of a foreigner and sometimes to laugh about how my country is.

It is always difficult to generalize and talk about millions of men/ women at once.
What is actually an ordinary Czech girl like? I cannot really say. I have only noticed that foreign men see Czech girls as mostly very beautiful, more tender, kinder and less demanding than "western women". Do you think so too? Now living in western Europe I have to say I sometimes find women here rather masculine - at work, at home as well as e.g. in their clothes.

The Czech Republic is a small country and just like in another small country, people face the fact they have to learn English and work harder to be internationally successful. Nevertheless I believe it can be very enriching for people from big countries to learn in details about small countries as well as to learn their language..

Otherwise, there are many things to improve in the Czech Republic - too many marriages get divorced, still a too big corruption etc. etc. Also I find Czech people (especially women) are not enough confident about themselves and the country - unfortuantelly the wonderful times of the "First republic" with president Masaryk are a past...what do you think?

Ahoj, have a nice Saturday.
blackfox4242 - [profile] Wed May 2nd 13:02 2007 / #157
I'm a college student in America and my Czech girlfriend and I have been completely happy for over a year now. We are getting the marriage bells ready to toll, and have only found our national differences as interesting conversation starters really. Granted, she jabs at America for global warming, Iraq, mass politics, fast food, low education, and well, most everything except 24 hour service and milkshakes, lol. It's alright though, because I'm a tolerant sort I guess. We get along with most everything and dream about our wedding and future. Personally, I don't see what the big fuss over Czech women vs. American men is. Either they like eachother, or they don't!

P.S.- She did like my "American manners" and monogamous concept of a relationship though ;). I guess I'm a handsome devil too, so that had to be part of it!
h2h h2h Wed May 2nd 15:39 2007 / #158
I'm getting sick of all these stereotypes about Czech women, of clueless American and English talking from their limited experience of "Czech women" filtered through the one or two they dated or married and western media.

Sorry to disappoint but contrary to expectations, Prague is NOT full of women looking like Czech supermodels. If a Czech woman looks like a supermodel, she moves to NYC, London or Paris. The women in Prague are looking pretty AVERAGE or nothing special these days and the younger ones are increasingly looking fat and stupid. The Czech Republic has one of the highest divorce rates in the EU. This is not just foreign/Czech couples but also Czech/Czech. Somedays I walk around and look at the faces, and they don't seem too happy. Not that visible unhappiness that showed circa 1996 - 97 when Czechs started feeling tired of foreigners flooding its borders, but a different, quiet internal resignation.

Wake up, kids, the honeymoon's over. It's not about Czech vs. America anymore.
Milewicz - [profile] Tue May 8th 04:00 2007 / #159
This is for Linda B.:

Cau, I just wanted to write a quick answer. I think Czechs have a lot to be proud of. One of the Czechs I knew always held herself very well, and I admired that. And I met similar people from the Czech Republic (and from other neighboring countries like Poland). Perhaps it is not the richest country in the world, but the people I have met have a lot to offer in other ways.
repat - [profile] Wed May 9th 15:22 2007 / #160
for Czech women - girls only money talks, as reality or as a vision for the future.
zodforpresident - [profile] Wed May 23rd 20:31 2007 / #161
[this comment moved to the dump; posted from ool-45791470.dyn.optonline.net]
Corbin Dallas - [profile] Thu May 24th 19:58 2007 / #162
Well, you obviously haven't seen a whole lot of American women, because there are many of them that are pretty, beautiful, sexy, etc.

In any case, you have my everlasting pity. It must be really difficult to walk around with the weight of so much unmitigated hatred.
zodforpresident - [profile] Thu May 24th 23:16 2007 / #163
[this comment moved to the dump; posted from ool-45791470.dyn.optonline.net]
freshsqueezed - [profile] Wed Dec 5th 12:57 2007 / #164
I must of went to a different CR. I have a Czech girlfriend and she is probably the sweetest girl I have ever met. She does have religion(Catholic) and is very loyal and faithful. I am learning Czech and we both believe its important to do so. I am looking forward to the day I can have in depth conversations with her parents(fantastic people by the way) She was not looking to me for money as she comes from a better off family. I love her for the person she is and she feels the same for me. I taken 5 trips for CR over the last 1.5 years and I always meet many great people. My girlfriend has some great friends that accept me as is and ask me if I know any good men. They complain the Czech men do not treat them well and say they drink too much. My girlfriend is beautiful and has dreams of having wonderful children. She is smart and I couldn't be happier. I have no clue where some of you people get your ideas. Here is the truth if you are a doormat that is going to get taken advantage of by women in America or UK chances are you will in CR too. Gold Digging women can smell insecurities a mile away no matter what country they are from. Personally I find the majority of Czech women to be quite pleasant.
aphrodisiakos - [profile] Thu Nov 22nd 12:52 2007 / #165
Hello everyone, you're all americans, aren't you?

Well, this is probably why none of you have sorted out exactly what it is with Czech women you meet.

I'm from China, and am looking forward to study in CR, so I've typed "Czech girls" and -- Congratulations, you rank top 20 in google!

Anyway, being a Chinese man, I've seen lots of Chinese girls going after an american, regardless of how he looks or whether he appears to be rich. What I can say is that you are a country of self-bloating assholes.

--I apologize for saying that, but it is true. Even american students in China studying Chinese would prefer to "show off" their English just to be "distinct". And I have to admit lots of girls here are attracted by this (or probably your AMERICAN WAY OF TREATING THEM?)

And it's not "gold-digging", definitely not. In actuality, you can win them over without talking English at all, but certain with hinting your nationality. So it's not a matter of "practicing the language" either. Everyone in this world knows american men are the fattest in the world, and very few of you can speaking decent English (I bet some of you speaking even worse than me, like "freshqueezed" making lots of grammatical and spelling errors), so it's nothing of what you've talked about.

-------------------------------------
Let me tell you why many girls of FORMER/CURRENT COMMUNIST COUNTRIES have such things for AMERICANS:

America has become a symbol of freedom for the billions living in COMMUNIST STATES, and it's only a matter of a set way of thinking that grants you the advantage.
-------------------------------------

I hope I can marry a beautiful Czech girl, but I know my chance is not good because: a) I'm not rich; b) I'm not american

But I know if any Czech girl becomes my girlfriend, she will never leave me because: 1) I'm quite handsome, strong, and tall; 2) I can speak Czech, decent English, a little French, and of course Chinese; 3) I don't have any money or an american passport so anyone who falls for me falls for the person I am, not anything I have.

Sometimes I feel sorry for the fact that I'm not rich, and I'm born in China, but knowing the fact of that last point often makes me feel better: EVEN IN THE TOUGHEST REALITY, ANY GIRL SAYING SHE LOVES ME MUST LOVE ME!

And thank god for that!
aphrodisiakos - [profile] Thu Nov 22nd 14:34 2007 / #166
-------------------------------------
Corbin Dallas - [profile] Thu May 24th 19:58 / #162
Well, you obviously haven't seen a whole lot of American women, because there are many of them that are pretty, beautiful, sexy, etc.
-------------------------------------

I just have to agree with him, 'cause there are beautiful girls in every country, especially when many "cream of the crop" easterners are now in the US.

American girls probably aren't the best, but there are definitely as much opportunity for an american man to find a soul mate in US as in any other less developed countries, if not more.

I said I wish to marry a Czech girl simply because I have a thing for Caucasian girls, and if any of you really like Asian girls, WELCOME. But if you just can't find anyone who has any interest in you in your own country, you'll probably find girls after you in these less-developed countries like GREEN CARD only.
freshsqueezed - [profile] Sat Dec 8th 15:11 2007 / #167
"aphrodisiakos" generally spelling and grammar are not that important in an informal setting such as this. I am sorry to offend as I type fast and don't care about grammar too much in a situation such as this. I have a Masters Degree in Electrical Engineering so I must not be too much of a stupid American. I am also glad you love to make brash generalizations about Americans. I know I have dated a far greater number and far more beautiful women than you ever will. So lets make some generalizations about you. Even if you have enough money a Czech girl probably will not like you because you are Asian so therefore you must be really skinny, physically weak , and have a small penis right!! Girls are attracted to confidence and if you are a shy weak person in your own country you will always be even in another country.
Thanks for playing.
anand - [profile] Tue Dec 11th 12:28 2007 / #168
hi,
anand - [profile] Sun Dec 9th 12:56 2007 / #169
also i would want to hear from some czech females about what is it that they think about before they choose to get married to somebody.
Jawani - [profile] Thu Jan 31st 01:18 2008 / #170
Hi, I think czech women are very pretty and good-mannered. I'm indian and married. If I was not married, I would look for a czech woman.
mercurialmann - [profile] Sun Feb 3rd 16:54 2008 / #171
The Czech women that are attracted to American man must be all the ugly leftovers! All the good looking ones move to Germany to act in porn films!! Not that I would know of course, it is only what I have been told!!!
"Foreign man" are usually losers that cannot find\get a girl friend in their own country and are usually on their best behaviour when they are abroad. Czech women probably know this and are out for everything that they can get. American men should be greatfull that this is still cheaper than the law courts in the US.
oriax - [profile] Tue Feb 5th 02:18 2008 / #172
I hear Aussie women think American accents are sexy for some reason. Personally, I think we sound like cats getting run over by a steamroller.

Sorry...wrong thread...

Despite your pseudo-intellectual banter, I think you are all elitist, arrogant, nihilist douchebags. I wouldn't allow myself to begin to understand your philosophies on life and love and general human-interactions if it made me a million USD. After having read the first few posts, I firmly believe my IQ has plummeted 50 points on the Wechsler. Many of the men on here remind me of the kind of guys whose idea of spending "disposable income" is snorting blow off a Russian strippers' mammary-glands.

"All right gentlemen, let's give a round of applause to the Siberian Dynamo -SVETLANAAAAA!!!"
(unf-unf tss-tss wooga-wooga)

You all suck eggs.

Except for DIRK DIGGLER. I'd have beers with him.
RobNic - [profile] Tue Jul 1st 18:02 2008 / #173
Wow! I stumbled across this discussion while doing research about the CR. I am an American male that will be relocating to Prague for several reasons, none of which have been stated in the many posts preceding this one. I'm troubled by the harsh generalizations made about men, women, cultures, etc. The European(and Chinese) gentlemen responding to this post seem to have a lot of frustration and anger toward American men, for whatever reason, and the Czech women are obviously taking the comments being made by the American men on this post as an indication of how all American men think, or they have had such bad experiences with the few that are in the CR that she is now very bitter. Well I am here as the voice of reason. Firstly, all American men that choose to travel abroad and meet women were not and are not desperate or couldn't find a woman in America. Believe me, there is no shortage of BEAUTIFUL women that are receptive to any man that is willing to treat her with dignity and respect and genuinely cares for her, be he short, tall, fat, skinny, handsome or not so handsome. Finances are important, but it just doesn't matter to every woman here the way some of you think. Additionally, American men are not all afraid of commitment. Most of my colleagues, friends, and associates are all married or are in serious relationships, and I have many friends all over the United States ranging from doctors to entertainers. I will say this, American women are very independent with great careers and busy lives, so men here have to compete with that. Since they have dreams, like we do, it is often less important for her to cater to a man the way women of other cultures are raised to do. In no way, shape, or form is this a comment to slight anybodys culture. I grew up in Michigan and went to school with people from a variety of nationalities, backgrounds, races and cultures, and after spending time with them in their homes, with their families, I was able to see stark differences in the way a Pakistanian woman or a Chaldean woman, a Mexican or Puerto Rican woman was being raised by her family to treat men versus the way American women are raised. So what may be interpreted as commitment phobia could really just be the initial difficulty of the American man adjusting to the more traditional thought about relationships that it seems Czech women are use to or are more apt to look for. I'm not saying all American men are looking for a wife or are all honest in their dealings with women abroad, or that all American women are so hungry for success that she has no time for a man, but what I am saying, is that because our society is so fast and changing it's often a matter of succeed, and then worry about everything else later. So often American men on the rise, as well as the women, are married to their careers and a girlfriend, boyfriend, husband, or wife are only supporters of that relationship. Sad, I know but true.

Secondly, and this is a message for the Czech women. American men seem overly confident or self centered because, in America, if you are not sure of yourself, even a little arrogant, you don't achieve the dream or goal because the competition for everything is so fierce that you must be confident in your ability to do anything and everything. It can make the difference in who gets the money, the girl, and the power. If you don't have confidence here, you get swallowed in the undertow. That's not a reason to be a self centered pig though I know. If you really want to meet and keep a quality American man, give him a challenge, we like challenges, otherwise we become disinterested when we have sex with you too quickly or you show too much interest too early. I think most men are this way, not just Americans. Here's a little info for you that will, hopefully, take some of the bad taste out of your mouth about us. American men definitely know how to treat a woman. If we really like you, we open doors for you, help you with your coat, buy you gifts, and take you out regularly and pamper you. We share with you our innermost dreams and secrets and will cherish your secrets and help you realize your dreams. After all, we're from the land of dreams, where a man can come from absolutely nothing and raise himself to the heights of success in a very short period of time if he is determined and confident. We also are some of the biggest freaks on the planet. I have to disagree with the young lady who stated that American men are good at foreplay but in the act of sex we are useless. Speaking for myself only sweetie, I make sure you get yours several times before I get mine once, and I have a slew of friends who attest to the same thing about themselves. I can't comment as to whether Czech women or any woman prefers American men over any other man, but it is logical to think that if you've lived in a place for your whole life, doing the same things, seeing the same people, and you have the chance to meet someone totally different from yourself, someone that is able to provide a bit of adventure and mystery, you are either going to stay away from them or try to get closer. So, I agree with the gentleman who addressed the fact that Czech women aren't just attracted to American men but any man who can stimulate parts of their minds and bodies the way they have never have been stimulated, American, Czech, Chinese or otherwise.

To all of my American brothers on this post. Man you guys disappoint me in that you have allowed a simple conversation about men and women to cause you to start word fighting and deviating from the original question. It is no wonder that some people abroad think we are pompous assholes that are more concerned with our own pursuits rather than being logical men who have helped shape the world with thoughts of growth and change. It's ok to debate, but being abusive and obnoxious is uncalled for and only supports the views of people who believe we are overly agressive and one sided. The strand of posts about the language and the genes of Europeans and whether Prague is a Slavic state or how much of the language one speaks, was purely macho madness amongst two obviously educated and informed men. However, I could only see two boys fighting over their pseudo-intellectual points of reference. Sorry guys but you made your arguments less credible when your ideas were challenged and you responded like kids on the playground- very immaturely.


To the Czech gentlemen on this post. Do not make broad assumptions about Americans based on what you've seen and heard in the media or from the stories you have heard from people in your country that have had bad experiences with an American. Instead seek to understand and then to be understood. It would be more productive to ask questions, share your dialogue, and concerns. Allow one of us to explain our view or what we have been subjected to that causes us to think and behave a certain way. All American men are not out to invade your borders and turn your country on its heals, take all your women and resources, and leave. This American man is interested in taking my experiences and education that I've attained here in the United States and bringing them to the parts of the world that could use my English ability to further themselves in their pursuit to become globally competitive. I have lived and travelled the U.S my whole life and am now ready to see what the rest of the world has to offer and what I can offer to the rest of the world. Yes I'm coming to Prague to teach English. It's not the highest paid profession in Prague, however being a native English speaker, I know that the world's primary language for doing business and education is switching to the English language very quickly and since I speak it and write it well, I believe I can help many of you become more affluent in speaking, reading and writing the language, increasing your self worth and quite possibly your net worth at the same time.


To the Czech women again,
Ladies the American man is amongst the best groomed and best dressed men on the planet. The majority of us bathe everyday and take the time to keep ourselves free from odor, using a deodorant/anti-perspirant along with very masculine smelling colognes. We keep our skin moisturized, and we take pride in having a neat haircut or hairstyle and hate for women to see us looking less than our best. It has nothing to do with being metrosexual or anything. For me, when I look in the mirror and I like how I look, I feel better and work better, not to mention my mother, God rest her soul, would slap me silly if I left out of the house dressed sloppily or my hair was uncombed or I was stinking.
I'm certainly not soliciting for dates, but if one of you beautiful Czech girls whose been damaged by the little boys from the United States and want to see the exception to what you have been exposed to by American men and relationships, I suggest you look me up this coming September and I'll shed a much brighter light on the subject. I'm in the market for a wife and I've been told that Czech women make perfect ones.
joeybaloney - [profile] Sun Sep 7th 13:36 2008 / #174
czech chicks convince themselves that they are very different than people from anywhere else, and that other czech people are the only people that they can really relate to. in the us, it is who you are talking to and whether or not you like them, not where they come from. the "czech" traits like introvertnedness, crybaby behavior, and self pity aren't actual national personality traits, it just means you are a twat. like most czech males. czech chicks like to convince themselves that there is actually something distinct that differentiates czechs from other people, that they are more thoughtful and introspective, and use it to justify an aversion to non-czechs. it is as if they are pre-programmed and have no capacity for thinking for themselves. and the way they will perceive a foreigner at an expat bar will be consistent with the pre-existing stereotypes that exist within their culture. the perception greatly shapes the reality. beyond that, it probably mostly has to do with insubstantial issues like money, professional position, how you dress, how you present yourself, what you look like.
joeybaloney - [profile] Tue Sep 2nd 18:45 2008 / #175
btw, example of godwin's law on this thread
joeybaloney - [profile] Sun Sep 7th 13:50 2008 / #176
joe c - [anon] Thu Jun 8th 10:42 2006 / #115
I liked Czech up to 1995.Prague.Karlovy Vary was beautiful and Czech.The changes in a decade is like a lifetime.I think assimulation and changes since 1989,is confusing to the Czech.but good.They think.Anyway,I like the Czech women,they are to me German work ethic and Italian romantics.The Czech women doesn't sell out.You better not .An Italian from New Jersey.

ey eh, joey canoli ova here eh how you doin' fughedaboutit! bada bing bada boom. ey eh lets get some eh spaghetti an meatballs ova here. fuhgedaboudit! i eh work down at eh Travagliano Auto Body down on eh west 39th so if ya muffla don't work bring it down and ill eh put it on the lift for ya. see whad i can do! fughedaboudit! hey eh weres my spaghetti an' meaballs ova here!
joeybaloney - [profile] Sun Sep 21st 14:16 2008 / #177
joeybaloney - [profile] Sun Sep 7th 13:37 2008 / #178
easterner - [profile] Mon Sep 15th 02:09 2008 / #179
Can someone please tell me a good site for dating czech women or have online pen pals?

I think czech women are very pretty as well, but I think getting to know them online is easier than just talking in czech which I suck at.

Cheers.
bobbybrown - [profile] Fri Apr 24th 17:12 2009 / #180
Your grammar could use quite a bit of work as you "don't know the grammar properly...". Perhaps being with your British fiance is not helping.

Additionally, Your comment about czech people being more educated is just plain ignorant on your part, what percentage of czechs actually go to unversity compared to Americans? Also the American education system at the college level is much more more open and less rigid that the Czech system


hahahahahahahahahaha
Gunslinger44 - [profile] Tue Oct 13th 07:38 2009 / #181
RobNic,

While much of what you said has basis in fact, on the whole you seem to be a magnificent example of douche. Reading (in part) your long-winded diatribe, has my mind painting a mental-picture of Spencer Pratt gone international.

You may see yourself as the shining light of the perfect American Male,...but your words tell another story. Truth is, I doubt very many Czech women browse this site at all, and they are certainly not going to see your writings as the personals-ad you intended it to be.

"I'm in the market for a wife and I've been told that Czech women make perfect ones."

Truly words that make women swoon with sexual excitement. Make it sound like you're browsing the international fruit-market. How about just be yourself, and let a woman be attracted to you naturally and fall in love like a real human being?

If half the women in the Western world earned a nickel for every needy queerbait limp-doodle who tried to ever chat them up, they would have enough to collectively put an end to world hunger.

But it gets better...

"my mother,....would slap me silly if I left out of the house dressed sloppily or my hair was uncombed or I was stinking."

This tells anyone everything they need to know. You are a momma's-boy, women hold inordinate amounts of power over you,....and women can sense this just by being near you. A woman is not attracted to a man she holds power over, she is never attracted to a man she can boss around. Ever. Someone has to tell you, bro. I'm truly sorry about your mom, but this is a separate issue and runs much deeper.

"...we open doors for you, help you with your coat, buy you gifts, and take you out regularly and pamper you. We share with you our innermost dreams and secrets and will cherish your secrets and help you realize your dreams..."

I wouldn't presume to know everything about women, as I am not one,...but my dealings with women have proven that what you said is about the opposite way to go about attracting a woman, any woman. Women want men who are leaders, confident, unafraid, sexual by nature. This is what we are blessed with, this is what attracts women to us. Once attracted to these very male qualities, then they fall in love even deeper when we show we are caring, value their opinion and feelings, etc. (and some of us actually do) But the world is chock-full of groveling non-men who will open doors, buy gifts, compliment, buy dinner, give cash, make things, write poems, stalk her at work, write more poems, receive Restraining Order, stalk her at home, etc. These kinds of "men" when it comes down to the heart of it, are the worst manipulators, by trying to make something that is by nature very primal, and very spiritual (love) into something to be "won" by material things and catering behaviors.

Very feminine women are attracted to very masculine men, it always has and always will be this way. Regardless of what American "society" has been re-programmed to believe, traditional male-female dynamics remain the driving force behind the proliferation of the species. Patriachal Society. The man is King of the house, provides for and protects his woman, and their children,...and the woman cares for and nourishes the children, keeps the home. Does this mean the woman is continuously barefoot and pregnant, and never gets to see outside? No. That is a lie propagated by the feminist agenda. Ever see a "real" feminist? Ever see a "real" lesbian. Nothing feminine about them. Even the ones who may be attractive outside, have a certain harshness to their countenance, that acts as an anti-Viagra to real men. That's why you see them with weak, milque-toast individuals. Indeed the feminist movement undermines everything that defines a woman as being feminine. Instead of nourishing kindness, peacefulness, grace,...loudmouthed obnoxious behavior,....instead of raising a child and loving a child, abortion.

A real man leads his family, provides and protects. He never lets his woman rule over him, but he loves her deeply, and values her opinion, does not denigrate her, but upholds her, takes her out, makes romance with her, shows her she is still special and wonderful, no matter what. A real man knows his place instinctively, and a real woman knows hers,...and if they both are true to their created order, then there is peace and harmony, and strength that cannot be broken.

On to the issue of Czech women liking American men, well things like the accent might add something exciting for her, but on an instinctual womanly level, it is the quality of the man that attracts her and keeps her coming back for more,...same as any other woman, from any other country in the whole world. There is something powerful in the accent though, I can attest to this.
Adelaide - [profile] Mon Nov 16th 10:46 2009 / #182
I (as a Czech woman) was surprised by reading the text above. And I decided to comment on your thoughts, dear gentlemen.



So why do we, Czech women, like (western English speaking) foreigners? As talking for myself:



1) Upon my experience western guys are more gentlemen than Czech guys.



2) I feel I'm more appreciated by westerners than here by men in the Czech republic. Czech guys (well, many of them) are spoilt. Look around if you are in CZ, there are plenty of cute girls and Czech guys got used to it. I felt much more special in countries like Netherlands, Britain, Germany, guys just behaved really nice to me. And apart from that no one of my friends from abroad did expect his gf to serve him like a maid. Believe it or not some of the Czech guys..ufff..



3) Let's admit it, it's about English as well. I don't want to say that we, Czech women, cunningly use native speakers for practising our English, but let's face the truth. It works that way. In my defense I would like to say that it goes for everything one learns. We long to use and enjoy those skills we have obtained. It doesn't really matter if you learn how to swim, ride a bike or if you learn English/Spanish/Italian.. So guys, take it as your strength if possible:).



4) To attract guy's attention in English is much greater a challenge! I'm 25, so I've been practising how to set up a trap for a guy all my life. I know how to implement a pick up line that works. I know how to make guys think I'm smart. During years it has become quite a boring process, let me tell you. But to do the same in English.. It's much harder to do so and much more challenging - thus it never becomes boring.



5) I like destroying prejudices. I'm unhappy to see there are plenty of those Czech women who pin their hopes on a beneficial marriage with a rich westener.. But (talking for myself) there are still those who don't care about money or marriage. To talk to a foreigner and show him that some people from Czech population are normal is another great challenge:).
Alphamale - [profile] Sun May 9th 14:04 2010 / #183
I'll say it because I'm not afraid to offend anyone. More attention should be paid to the comments about Czech men who think odor measures manhood while they live with mommy. Most women wouldn't argue that CONFIDENCE is very attractive. While you sissies argue over grammar and what you think women want, you are missing the whole point. The important thing to worry about, is do they want YOU?!?! Some of us get it. Some Americans are right brained, decision making, alpha males who can fix broken things and survive in a rough world. Of those, some are good looking and well groomed. Of those, some are wealthy. Those are the ones who should breed, they should populate and inherit the world, the beautiful Czech women see this. The rest of you will serve us. Its a dog eat dog world and I just armed you with the secret to power, BALLS.
Maarvin - [profile] Mon May 24th 13:43 2010 / #184
I appreciated the comments from Linda B. :-)
I have been to Prague for the first time this year. This is a great place, and I will return again (not too far from where I live). I cannot give a correct appreciation, but I first sight I think Czech women are intelligent, educated and they are friendly (maybe not too much talkative).
Linda, can you tell me what Czech women really don't like about me, especially when they date a foreign man? On the other had, what do they really appreciate from foreign men?
What I like about them (at least what I have seen) is that they remain and behave like women (contrary to many women in western Europe and above all USA), they can be indenpendent (meaning deciding what to do in their lives by her own), and they are no so complicated like Russian and Ukrainian women are. Have a great day :-)
Raul Raul - [profile] Tue Jul 13th 19:25 2010 / #185
I came back from Prague 2 days ago and I can't lie, czech girls are very beautiful.
Obviously I'm not Czech or american I'm from Spain, I only know some words in english (everything that I've learned in high school and college, because my educational system offers no more).
After introduce myself, I can say that I dont know which attracts to the Czech woman (I dont know if I were attracted to them, maybe yes or maybe not), but I know that one important thing in any country for many women, is money.
But I dont think that a czech women want a american man to learn english, I speak Spanish and no czech woman has tried to seduce me (bad luck to me lol).

Also, Can anyone explain to me that the problem with men who use deodorant and aftershave?
Maybe she wants love like rest of the world.

I hope that nobody is offended by I have written.
furian - [profile] Sat Jun 11th 07:45 2011 / #186
Hi guys, from what I have read I am intrigued by Czech people. I would like to get an opinion on what to expect if I try living there, I will be traveling Europe this summer to find a new part time home. I have a retirement annuity of about 150,000 K a month. I enjoy lots of sports and want a quality gym to train weights and aerobics. I don't need a great place to live, just with a good bed, cable, and lots of hot water. Can an expat here give me a rundown on food, nightlife, job opportunities, gyms, and women (since I have learned much here already maybe a how to meet or approach them info). I am in my 50s. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Wanderer - [profile] Sat Dec 24th 16:12 2011 / #187
There have been some great comments in this thread, but it all comes down to the "bottom line". The bottom line, speaking as a fairly well traveled American guy is that every country I visit and live in there is a new and exciting feeling to everything, most of all the women. Although, after you stay awhile and acclimatize, get to know a few people well, you realize that its very similar to where you came from, people are people. There are good ones, bad ones, shady ones, honest ones, crazy ones, sexy ones and sweet ones. Just like back home. When visiting a country that really favors foreigners, its always easy to "hook up", but actual relationships will not be much different. I find that I usually end up dating very similar types of women no matter what country they're from. I do find CZ women particularly sexy though which is why I will continue to hang out whenever I can! Enough ranting, just my $0.02.
trust me - [profile] Sun Apr 29th 01:31 2012 / #188
Guys!!!!!! I have been lived more than 10 years in Prague.I met sure more than 100 czech girls, I had records of so quick to get a czech girl in bed......Just one, one russian girl "my angel" came into my life in staromestska square and completly changed my life,am very happy in life,in bed,in kitchen,... and we are together almost 4 years.Guys, if you want serious relationship, love,family, strong culture and personality, well educated, go ahead, look for russian beauties!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! don't waste your time!!!
luciekrat - [profile] Thu May 3rd 12:36 2012 / #189
I am a czech woman and I am not attracted to anything american (except us mountains and nature). When you look for girls at the Prague bars, don´t be suprise you find sluts.
pppmichal - [profile] Sun Jun 10th 17:58 2012 / #190
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pppmichal - [profile] Sun Jun 10th 17:56 2012 / #191
Now the GDP by the parity of purchasing power of CZ is about that of New Zealand so what is that hype about rich 'western' men about? Ever heard about sponsorship, because that is what women who only care about your money are about? Get real. Sometimes it might be charming for them that you are from abroad just because, but you will need to be really naïve thinking money buys love.
fin - [profile] Wed Sep 18th 12:50 2013 / #192
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